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Retirement Nomads: Too poor to retire and too young to die

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Re: Retirement Nomads: Too poor to retire and too young to die

#151

Post by Lawtonfogle »

zanny wrote: post #118
6stringmerc wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an advocate of "debtors prisons" as a traditional concept, but I'm also very reluctant to sympathize with those living on a fixed income who refuse to pick up and move to an area where the cost of living adequately aligns with their financial means. As in, if a person is old and broke, they should be grateful to have the freedom to move to a cheap place to live, not bemoan that they can no longer afford their…

You don't have to strangle the youth to feed the elderly. IT is always a false dichotomy to think that you need the poor to provide for the poor. Here are numbers to consider. Per capita real GDP in 2015 in the US was $51,143. Fourty years ago it was $24,693. We have more than doubled our per-person wealth, and are continuing to increase at 2%, roughly twice the rate of inflation. We are absolutely wealthy as a count…

>We are absolutely wealthy as a country.

Well now that you mention it... if we have responsibility to the poor of this country, do we not also have responsibility to the poor of other countries? Even more so if you are talking about the US due to all our meddling in the affairs of other countries.

Re: Retirement Nomads: Too poor to retire and too young to die

#152

Post by refurb »

gist wrote: post #127
refurb wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You compare yourself to your peers and what your expectations are growing up and what you experience. Life is much easier if you don't have that mindset. I, in fact, do wake up every morning thankful for what I have, even if it's not as much as my neighbor.

> Life is much easier if you don't have that mindset. Why? Striving for something is actually fun for some people. (Unless I am not getting your point exactly.)

Oh I'm certainly striving to make my own life better. I just don't use other people as a gauge as to whether or not I've "made it".

Re: Retirement Nomads: Too poor to retire and too young to die

#153

Post by Lawtonfogle »

CocaKoala wrote: post #105
toomuchtodo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you should ask the questions: Why did Boomers not have enough income to put savings aside? If savings was put aside, what rate of return did it earn? And what remains of those savings? But heh, f___ old people for decisions that were made before you were born, amirite?

>Why did Boomers not have enough income to put savings aside? To be fair, plenty of millenials don't have enough income to put savings aside either, and they're not even getting social security benefits.

Which adds another grim view to this problem. Every dollar spent today to help the elderly who are poor is a dollar less for when we are elderly, and it is looking already like our situation is going to be even worse (even if you ignore the big issues like climate change).

Re: Retirement Nomads: Too poor to retire and too young to die

#154

Post by Mikeb85 »

I was going to write a post about how you can't have a great social net as well as low-tax laissez-faire economy.

But this article paints a portrait of a woman who never saved, made many bad decisions, spends too much, and, even when faced with poverty, continues to try to "have it all". Maybe it's commendable, I've always thought it would be fun to be a ski bum or something (and I have taken 6 months off at a time before to go travel, camp, ski, etc...). But if I were to make that choice, it would be just that - my choice, and I certainly wouldn't complain about the consequences.

Re: Retirement Nomads: Too poor to retire and too young to die

#155

Post by zepto »

6stringmerc wrote: post #63
s_q_b wrote: post #8

Before Social Security, over 70% of seniors died in poverty. Today, that number is less than 10%. The amount of transfer payments to the elderly is so much larger than to any other age group, but unless you're willing to let those below the median income die in abject poverty, it's necessary.

I'm not an advocate of "debtors prisons" as a traditional concept, but I'm also very reluctant to sympathize with those living on a fixed income who refuse to pick up and move to an area where the cost of living adequately aligns with their financial means. As in, if a person is old and broke, they should be grateful to have the freedom to move to a cheap place to live, not bemoan that they can no longer afford their…

Yes - they should have anticipated the dramatic changes in technology and economics and planned accordingly. Failure to do so means they deserve to die as penniless cripples.

/s

Re: Retirement Nomads: Too poor to retire and too young to die

#156

Post by zepto »

6stringmerc wrote: post #97
bad_user wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The youth are going to get old as well. And if you're young and you're not rich already, I bet you don't like birthdays that much.

Actually I have a summer birthday so, yes, I do not enjoy them very much. I'm basically very disappointed at the economy and society that I've inherited. Forgive me if I don't wear a smile while looking critically at those who came before me.

Sounds like you blame the elderly for your situation. What happened to taking responsibility for your own station?

Re: Retirement Nomads: Too poor to retire and too young to die

#157

Post by jtuente »

caskance wrote: post #32
exhilaration wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're pretty confident that you and/or your savings will live to take care of your parents. What if you get hit by a bus? Or lose your ability to work? Isn't that what a social safety net is for?

For most of us with dependents, that's what private life insurance is for. The social safety net is for people too poor or irresponsible to have life insurance.

Do people not understand the safety part of the safety net? It's not there because you expect to fail, it's there for if you happen to. I don't keep a fire extinguisher in my kitchen because I expect to set it on fire, but rather I want to be able to stop a fire should one ignite. If you're reliant on a safety net, then you've failed at what you were trying to do.

Re: Retirement Nomads: Too poor to retire and too young to die

#158

Post by harrumph »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #135
harrumph wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of going 8MPH over the speed limit being pegged at a week's income is not anything any person chooses. It is imposed, as well as being brutal. These backdoor taxes on the poor exist for only one reason: concentrations of wealth work very successfully at avoiding most taxation.

The choice to drive, the choice to speed are what I was talking about.

She LIVES on the road. There is no "choice" to drive in her case.

And with municipalities steadily losing revenue (see corporate tax avoidance above) signage is commonly foregone, making it far from a settled issue as to knowledge of speed limits.

The word "choice" belongs in different situations than this.

Re: Retirement Nomads: Too poor to retire and too young to die

#159

Post by k-mcgrady »

6stringmerc wrote: post #115
k-mcgrady wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Might sound cruel, but strangling the youth to feed the elderly, as would be the alternative, doesn't work in the US economic model." It sounds very cruel. There's most certainly a balance we can strike but when politics, particularly in the US, is so two sided balance is hard to find. Picking up the elderly and forcing them to move is pretty drastic. Imagine being 10-20 years from death and having to leave your…

> I doubt you'll be espousing this same view when you can't walk due to a bad hip and can't afford a new one possibly due to factors outside of your control. Sigh, this is unfortunately a subject I refuse to go into much detail about, but this view was entirely crafted under the auspices of having an expensive, lifetime handicap. Pre-ACA, I lived constantly under threat of medical bankruptcy and pre-existing conditio…

Sorry to hear about your health issues. I can see your point of view on this but I just don't see why it sound be an issue at all. I believe it's perfectly possible for us to be able to provide free health care to everyone if the government stops wasting significant amounts of money on unnecessary ventures.

Re: Retirement Nomads: Too poor to retire and too young to die

#160

Post by rconti »

s_q_b wrote: post #25
kasey_junk wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are being down-voted because the US has near universal basic income for older folks & the subject of the story collects it. It's one of the real questions I have about basic income schemes generally. The examples we have are not powerful arguments in favor of them.

Social Security worked well, before cost of living overtook the benefits provided.

For every level of benefits, I'm pretty sure I can find a way to exceed that in my cost of living.
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