Why your favorite apps are designed to addict you • Hacker News Board

Re: Why your favorite apps are designed to addict you

#31

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Feb 02, 2016, 8:20 PM UTC

shostack wrote: post #30

jacquesm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One less responsibility. It never was a responsibility.

Good point Jacques. I guess that's another aspect of this--it sure as heck felt like a responsibility towards the end. And that was a large contributor to why I deleted it. If a game feels like a responsibility, it is no longer a game in my mind. It is also why I never understood why my friend enjoyed being an MMO guild leader when I was young. It seemed like real work. Once a game crosses the "work" threshold, I ten…

I have an extremely addictive personality, no matter what, if I like something I have to be really careful not to get sucked in. My way of dealing with those things is to ruthlessly cut them out of my life, if I have to spend the energy required to fight the addiction then I might as well give in, the end result is a net reduction in energy available for useful stuff.

So, I did what you did when I realized that computer games had this power over me, and got rid of them completely (early 20's at the time). Since then I got sucked in exactly once, the game of Mahjongg, and as soon as I recognized that I was being sucked in I deleted that as well. (this happened when I was 28 or so.)

It's super annoying that I can't seem to set myself limits on what is ok and what is not, but in the end I come out ahead because I then have to be utterly ruthless about it which saves even more time (and in the case of alcohol and other goodies it saves me my health and money too).

When I got sucked into computer games the world of games was a lot friendlier than it is today. I worked for a game company for a while, and in the end realized that that world really wasn't for me (though I enjoyed the programming immensely, the only addiction that I've allowed to run completely without restraint). Computer games nowadays are more like crack cocaine compared to the ones that were available when I was a kid.

Congratulations on your recognition, it's going to be an interesting time for you now that you have a really large chunk of extra life that you can allocate in whatever way that you see fit.

Re: Why your favorite apps are designed to addict you

#32

Post by soylentcola » Tue, Feb 02, 2016, 9:30 PM UTC

pimlottc wrote: post #8

bitwize wrote: post #7

Every time I try out one of these damned stupid mobile ganes, I reach a point where I'm like "okay, fuck this" and that's the point where it starts getting grindy without spending cash. It's very subtle, like the moment a stripper stops being friendly and starts silently expecting generous tips in order to keep being friendly. But it's there, I hate it, and it makes games profoundly unfun.

What worries me is that kids growing up today will think that this is normal, just part of "how video games are". I miss the days when you paid once and got full access to the entire game, limited only by your own skill. When the game designer's chief concern was fun and playability, not artificial roadblocks to spur paid "upgrades". It's a sad trend.

I look at it as an evolution of arcade games. Granted, arcades were also meeting/hangout places and they often had games that looked and played better than anything you could get at home.

Still, from the perspective of the companies that made them, it was similar. Look at the earlier games or even the current gen of pachinko games that are still popular in Japan and you can see the sort of overlap between video games and the exploitation of impulses and reactions typically associated with gambling.

I remember not understanding why my folks never wanted to give me money to go screw around in the arcade at the mall but looking at microtransactions and "energy games" on mobile, I completely get it now. Sure, to beat an arcade game or beat a high score can take enormous skill but in order to develop that skill, you need to keep feeding an endless stream of quarters. It's the original gaming microtransaction.

Re: Why your favorite apps are designed to addict you

#33

Post by soylentcola » Tue, Feb 02, 2016, 9:33 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #16

I have Facebook only on the desktop, not on my phone. I don't want it bothering me. There's nothing on Facebook that needs immediate attention, and less and less of it that has anything to do with what my friends are doing. Remember, sharing is spamming.

I've got a third party FB app that is basically a sandboxed wrapper for easier browsing of the mobile website, but yeah, I agree. It's more for the rare occasion I need to check on a conversation with someone who insists on using Facebook.

Otherwise, it's just something I look at once or twice a week when I'm bored and want to see what people are up to. I never connect any mobile games or other apps with my FB account and if a program or site requires FB login, I stop using it.

Re: Why your favorite apps are designed to addict you

#34

Post by shostack » Tue, Feb 02, 2016, 11:56 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #31

shostack wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point Jacques. I guess that's another aspect of this--it sure as heck felt like a responsibility towards the end. And that was a large contributor to why I deleted it. If a game feels like a responsibility, it is no longer a game in my mind. It is also why I never understood why my friend enjoyed being an MMO guild leader when I was young. It seemed like real work. Once a game crosses the "work" threshold, I ten…

I have an extremely addictive personality, no matter what, if I like something I have to be really careful not to get sucked in. My way of dealing with those things is to ruthlessly cut them out of my life, if I have to spend the energy required to fight the addiction then I might as well give in, the end result is a net reduction in energy available for useful stuff. So, I did what you did when I realized that compu…

Thanks for sharing your story--it is definitely encouraging to hear successful people who have struggled with similar situations.

I wish it were really a significant chunk of my life compared to some other things though. It saved me maybe 10-20 minutes/day. Sure that adds up, and I have to start somewhere, but I need to chop more. Reddit is a huge one that I'm on the fence with. I use it as one of my primary news sources, learn a ton from the more educational subs, and even do some valuable professional networking there (in fact, I just had coffee with someone whom I met on Reddit to chat about work stuff). But I inevitably also read things that don't add that type of value, or get sucked into responding to stuff that I could have avoided, etc. Would love to hear how you tackle integrating the various "feeds" in your life in a productive manner.

Also, back to the gaming note--were you actively playing any games on a regular basis when you started having your first major entrepreneurial successes? I'm pretty established in my career by now and senior in my field. Objectively I'm "doing well", but I sometimes feel like I'm being held back by my leisurely pursuits (gaming, gardening, watching a little TV with my wife after dinner). I justify it as something I need to do to manage stress from my life/job, but I simultaneously feel guilty when I realize how "unproductive" that time is. I could be practicing coding, working on side projects, reading something educational, etc. It is really starting to be its own source of stress.

Re: Why your favorite apps are designed to addict you

#35

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Feb 03, 2016, 1:22 AM UTC

shostack wrote: post #34

jacquesm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an extremely addictive personality, no matter what, if I like something I have to be really careful not to get sucked in. My way of dealing with those things is to ruthlessly cut them out of my life, if I have to spend the energy required to fight the addiction then I might as well give in, the end result is a net reduction in energy available for useful stuff. So, I did what you did when I realized that compu…

Thanks for sharing your story--it is definitely encouraging to hear successful people who have struggled with similar situations. I wish it were really a significant chunk of my life compared to some other things though. It saved me maybe 10-20 minutes/day. Sure that adds up, and I have to start somewhere, but I need to chop more. Reddit is a huge one that I'm on the fence with. I use it as one of my primary news sou…

I only have one 'feed' (this one).

As for the games, it was long long ago and I don't think I would have done much of anything if I had not cut the habit. The one that really did it for me was Elite, I played that so much that one evening I saw the afterimage of the main screen superimposed on the wall paper when I looked away and I realized I should really stop this before it got even more out of control.

20 minutes per day... I wish. More like 12 hours per day or so, I remember one time I arrived at the office on a Saturday because I'd totally lost track of time.

Re: Why your favorite apps are designed to addict you

#36

Post by CM30 » Wed, Feb 03, 2016, 8:05 AM UTC

Terr_ wrote: post #9

pimlottc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What worries me is that kids growing up today will think that this is normal, just part of "how video games are". I miss the days when you paid once and got full access to the entire game, limited only by your own skill. When the game designer's chief concern was fun and playability, not artificial roadblocks to spur paid "upgrades". It's a sad trend.

On the flip-side, we've moved away from "fixed in the cartridge" games which were Nintendo Hard. [0]: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard

Those things still exist, they're just reserved for completionists now. The optional content in any current era Mario game is arguably more awkwardly designed than anything from similar games in the NES era, with the assumption being that anyone attempting it is the kind of person who liked the 'Nintendo Hard' titles of the 80s.

Presumably, designers now often see the 'main' adventure or campaign as for everyone, the multiplayer mode as a way to keep most people playing instead of fake difficulty and the 100% completion 'optional' content as for the masochists.