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Quiver: Programmer's Notebook for OS X

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Re: Quiver: Programmer's Notebook for OS X

#41

Post by cogwheel »

spdustin wrote: post #31
cogwheel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be a trend among certain groups of developers to act as if their preferred environment is the only one that exists. Calling this "The Programmer's Notebook" makes it seem like a broadly applicable tool for programmers in general, when it's actually fairly exclusive and specific. There's nothing particularly egregious about this example, but it's part of a larger pattern that is aggravating for any non-…

ReSharper and Visual Studio should be OS X compatible, it's not like every developer is using Windows. Such a monoculture. See? It goes both ways (which, from your edit, I know you understand, but it's work a specific example). This guy's labor of love is a well crafted, thoughtful application for programmers using OS X. There is zero controversy there. Same with any other OS X-only application that Windows or (Li|U)…

If ReSharper was called "The Programmer's Refactoring Suite" or if Visual Studio were called "The Programmer's IDE" I would see your point.

I'm not simply referring to the decision to target a particular platform. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with having a narrow focus. But please stop pretending it's anything but a narrow focus.

Re: Quiver: Programmer's Notebook for OS X

#43

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

chrisseaton wrote: post #39
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I've downloaded the trial, and if I like what I see (and, of course, the price is right) I'll buy a copy, but only if I can buy one directly from you, not via the App store. The App store has many technical limitations, and it also means the consumer is effectively just licensing software from Apple rather than owning it outright.

> it also means the consumer is effectively just licensing software from Apple rather than owning it outright Isn't almost all software licensed rather than ownership sold? This isn't unique to the App Store.

Sure, most (if not all) software comes with a licence. Maybe I'm not using the best terminology. Maybe I mean "subscribing to", although that implies regular payment. Either way, what I'm referring to is the fact that Apple becomes a point in the critical path to just running your software. Whether intentional, or accidental, Apple can remotely prevent you from running the software you've paid for (e.g. [1]).

And I'm not even beginning to cover the terrible App Store app itself or the enormous cut Apple takes from independent developers.

[1] http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/12/apple-user...

Re: Quiver: Programmer's Notebook for OS X

#44

Post by decisiveness »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #37

The tutorial notebook is full of individual notes with multiple 'cells'. When creating my own note, it's not immediately obvious how I achieve this. Hitting ENTER just creates a new paragraph/line within the same cell. I've discovered, through trial and error, that hitting SHIFT+ENTER creates a new cell, but this should maybe be more easily discoverable. Some of the UI elements are a bit out-of-place. I'm not sure if…

> I've discovered, through trial and error, that hitting SHIFT+ENTER creates a new cell, but this should maybe be more easily discoverable.

This is in the tutorial, Section 3 - Cell Operations.

Re: Quiver: Programmer's Notebook for OS X

#45

Post by brazzledazzle »

jsjohnst wrote: post #25
song wrote: post #24

That looks very good, I just wish I could buy it outside of the mac app store. I really dislike buying for the app store and much prefer buying directly from the company...

Can you explain why? Curious as this differs from most people I've seen.

For me: If I have a copy of the software I have it forever. With the app store I only have it as long as Apple permits. Using an older version of OS X can create issues as well, if the developer decides not to support it. If for some reason they remove it from the store I have to hope the developers make it available outside that channel. It's certainly happened with iOS apps. I'm open to being proven wrong though.

Re: Quiver: Programmer's Notebook for OS X

#46

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

decisiveness wrote: post #44
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #37

The tutorial notebook is full of individual notes with multiple 'cells'. When creating my own note, it's not immediately obvious how I achieve this. Hitting ENTER just creates a new paragraph/line within the same cell. I've discovered, through trial and error, that hitting SHIFT+ENTER creates a new cell, but this should maybe be more easily discoverable. Some of the UI elements are a bit out-of-place. I'm not sure if…

> I've discovered, through trial and error, that hitting SHIFT+ENTER creates a new cell, but this should maybe be more easily discoverable. This is in the tutorial, Section 3 - Cell Operations.

That's great, the tutorial notebook is a nice addition. To its credit, the app is usable without wading through a manual first, as all software should be. I still feel a toolbar icon or a more obvious way to create a new cell would be beneficial.

Re: Quiver: Programmer's Notebook for OS X

#47

Post by JoeAltmaier »

brazzledazzle wrote: post #45
jsjohnst wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why? Curious as this differs from most people I've seen.

For me: If I have a copy of the software I have it forever. With the app store I only have it as long as Apple permits. Using an older version of OS X can create issues as well, if the developer decides not to support it. If for some reason they remove it from the store I have to hope the developers make it available outside that channel. It's certainly happened with iOS apps. I'm open to being proven wrong though.

In that way its similar to how music used to be. Had tapes; they went away. Got the LP. Gone but not forgotten. Bought the CD. They went away. Bought the DVD. All those stores are closed. So MP3. Or streaming.

Re: Quiver: Programmer's Notebook for OS X

#48

Post by cogwheel »

spdustin wrote: post #31
cogwheel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be a trend among certain groups of developers to act as if their preferred environment is the only one that exists. Calling this "The Programmer's Notebook" makes it seem like a broadly applicable tool for programmers in general, when it's actually fairly exclusive and specific. There's nothing particularly egregious about this example, but it's part of a larger pattern that is aggravating for any non-…

ReSharper and Visual Studio should be OS X compatible, it's not like every developer is using Windows. Such a monoculture. See? It goes both ways (which, from your edit, I know you understand, but it's work a specific example). This guy's labor of love is a well crafted, thoughtful application for programmers using OS X. There is zero controversy there. Same with any other OS X-only application that Windows or (Li|U)…

And just to be even clearer, I'm not begging this developer to release their product cross-platform. I'm begging everyone in the developer community to communicate in ways that are less presumptuous. The way we choose to name things is an act of communication, and it seems to have failed in this case.

Re: Quiver: Programmer's Notebook for OS X

#50

Post by cholantesh »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #47
brazzledazzle wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me: If I have a copy of the software I have it forever. With the app store I only have it as long as Apple permits. Using an older version of OS X can create issues as well, if the developer decides not to support it. If for some reason they remove it from the store I have to hope the developers make it available outside that channel. It's certainly happened with iOS apps. I'm open to being proven wrong though.

In that way its similar to how music used to be. Had tapes; they went away. Got the LP. Gone but not forgotten. Bought the CD. They went away. Bought the DVD. All those stores are closed. So MP3. Or streaming.

Even before that you had the option of buying sheet music and playing it on an instrument, but that's a significant barrier to entry. And I guess the scores would wither away in a few generations.
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