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Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

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Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#201
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impossible? Yahoo had gross income of $4.6B in 2014. That is one hell of a cash flow stream. I find it very hard to believe that turning that into a profitable venture again would violate the laws of either physics or economics. I think a much more likely explanation is that Marissa failed because she brought no new ideas to the table, and also made a whole bunch of boneheaded blunders like this: http://gawker.com/59…

It had a top-line of 4.6B, but 1.2B in fixed costs and a little over 3B in payroll expenses. Yahoo's problems have absolutely nothing to do with Mayer having a "nursery" put into her office. She could have taken minimum wage and no other compensation, and no part of this story would have turned out differently, except they might have sold the company by now. Arguments about Mayer's performance on threads like these a…

When Mayer took over at Yahoo, I thought it could go either way-like everyone else. These tech companies are really about perception. I was waiting to hear, "Look at what Yahoo is doing!". Just didn't hear it.

I was suprised she didn't fire more people.

I thought it was a mistake to bring all telecommuting employees in.

I know she meant well, but all she did was irritate employees. There was no way these employees were going to bond, and magically turn into a Google love fest.

For some reason, I still think about happily doing your work at home, and then having to come into work and bond. Yes, I think it's important, at innovative companies, for employees to be present, all around the camp fire, but it's someting that needs to be done from day one.

In my world, I still stumble upon a yahoo page, but it's usually by malware on my old laptop I just haven't fixed. I'm glad they haven't changed their look, and then suprised.

Yahoo reminds me of just how dispensable these companies are in the bigger picture. Yahoo could dissapear, and I wouldn't even flinch. I don't even know anyone with a Yahoo email anymore.

Their next CEO should be an unknown, who's really into his/her tinkering stage in life. Young, crazy, motivated, bursting with angst. Gave this person a strong financial team, but don't hire the right looking candidate on paper.

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that the "best and brightest" consider lavish parties as a deciding factor in where they work. Notice how I phrased it. It's not cost cutting. It's about investing in employees. That is something the "best and the brightest" love.

No, the "best and brightest" at a company are interested in the company investing in them at the expense of the dead weight. They are also not very interested in training, because they don't need it. They want to work on cutting-edge projects. "Training" is something that the poor performers are going to flock to, because it benefits them. Which is the polar opposite of what the top performers want.

I don't think it's fair to say that it's the polar opposite of what they want, or to imply that all top performers feel the same way. Even the most talented junior developers could use some training, and if done properly it saves me time doing ad-hoc training/mentoring. A company's willingness to invest in its employees via training in particular is a positive indicator for me. Obviously this doesn't apply to early-stage startups and such.

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those things that folks learn over time. I've met masters of the "busy people" who, with no direction whatsoever from above have full meeting schedules, generating reports and presentations and white papers and generally "working hard" but it is all just running on a treadmill as far as I can tell. They are exercising their "execution" habits while waiting for something to actually do. It sort of amaze…

>all just running on a treadmill as far as I can tell. Unfortunately, people lose their minds when some company announces layoffs, like some purposeful social harm is being done, yet somehow when a company is having massive hiring no one really questions how much of that is valid or sustainable. People become like you describe; they master the do nothing job via office cult cargoism. It must be exhausting to have a '…

>> I'd say 80% of the work/value done here is by 30 or 40% of the staff, maybe 20% if we're being really tough

Makes sense. But are aren't we seeing such inefficient companies crumble ? Everything is so monopolistic?

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#204
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impossible? Yahoo had gross income of $4.6B in 2014. That is one hell of a cash flow stream. I find it very hard to believe that turning that into a profitable venture again would violate the laws of either physics or economics. I think a much more likely explanation is that Marissa failed because she brought no new ideas to the table, and also made a whole bunch of boneheaded blunders like this: http://gawker.com/59…

It had a top-line of 4.6B, but 1.2B in fixed costs and a little over 3B in payroll expenses. Yahoo's problems have absolutely nothing to do with Mayer having a "nursery" put into her office. She could have taken minimum wage and no other compensation, and no part of this story would have turned out differently, except they might have sold the company by now. Arguments about Mayer's performance on threads like these a…

> Yahoo's problems have absolutely nothing to do with Mayer having a "nursery" put into her office.

Of course they don't. That's not the point. Putting a nursery in her office was not a boneheaded blunder because the cost of the nursery (or her salary) made the difference between the company succeeding and not. It was a boneheaded blunder because at the same time she put the nursery in her office she also rescinded all telecommuting. That had an understandably (and predictably!) devastating effect on morale. The message was: I (Marissa) deserve to have this perk that makes my life more convenient, but you, silly rank-and-file employee, do not. I don't even care if you can demonstrate that you can be productive from home, I don't have time to sort that out. I'm much too busy and important for that sort of trivia. So you're just going to have to suck it up and deal with your commute.

> her first order of business should have been a significant layoff

Could be. Whatever it is she should have done, she manifestly hasn't done it yet.

> I have doubts as to whether a good CEO could have done much to change the outcome here

People were saying the same thing about Apple before Steve Jobs came back. Sadly, in this case we will probably never know because that experiment will never be done.

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#205
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Melissa Marissa > I wonder how easy it'll be for her to find a job Marissa's net worth is well into nine figures. I wouldn't worry about her too much. And she can always run for president as a Republican.

That's a much more fun thing to say than "person tasked with impossible job fails to do the impossible". From the comments on this part of the thread, you'd think Yahoo was some kind of Internet colossus before Mayer took their reins, rather than an overgrown relic kept alive and profitable through sheer inertia.

Remember Apple when Jobs took it over? 90 days from bankruptcy, and written off by most people. Getting the right CEO is enormously important, and not impossible.

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#206
post #162
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>companies are for shareholders, not workers Companies, whether it is admitted by them or not, are really for stake holders, not just shareholders, and stakeholders includes employees; or least, wise companies will act as if that is so, even if it is not so legally on paper.

You can also do it on paper. Make your VC shares subordinate to your employee ISO pool. Talk is cheap ;-)

Well that may be a better idea but they actually have to do it. What I meant was, if they don't behave that way, people will increasingly leave - when they can.

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It had a top-line of 4.6B, but 1.2B in fixed costs and a little over 3B in payroll expenses. Yahoo's problems have absolutely nothing to do with Mayer having a "nursery" put into her office. She could have taken minimum wage and no other compensation, and no part of this story would have turned out differently, except they might have sold the company by now. Arguments about Mayer's performance on threads like these a…

If there's no difference in whether she would've been paid zero dollars, then thats a pretty good argument that they should find someone that will take zero dollars - just find someone that wants to commit reputation suicide!

[deleted]

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The figure is based upon stock options and bonuses. It's here in this picture: http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/566edfb272f2c150028...

That's still not close to 100MM/yr and it's contingent, but look, we probably all agree that Yahoo's investors didn't get their money's worth on a marquee CEO. It is, however, weird to me that everyone's so quick to blame Mayer for that. She didn't make up the game. The game stays the game. If it wasn't Mayer presiding over the decline of Yahoo --- probably still after acquiring Tumblr! --- it'd've been someone else.

I have a lot of disorganized thoughts on this issue. Please bear with me as I try to gather them together.

For the sake of exposition, let's say Mayer makes some $$MM/y, the exact number isn't really important to my point past a certain level, which she most certainly is.

What is she being paid that amount for? Let's explore each of the obvious options I see, and an expected common reaction (Had written logical, but that's not what I meant, since many common reactions are far from logical).

- To restore the company.

This clearly did not happen, if this was her job, she failed at it, and for most "normal people", getting paid that $$MM/y seems very off compared to what we might receive in such a failure.

- To as you say, preside over the decline. (age gracefully)

The argument I'll pose for the anti-Mayer sentiment in this case can be applied more broadly, but is most fitting here. One might expect this sort of role, in parity with firings, would include policies of waist tightening at all levels. I'm not even making a stance for or against these things in this argument, but the press about a slew of very exorbitant and very material benefits when paired beside firing of boots on the ground (again, not taking a stance, just observing the contrasting sentiments) give the _PERCEPTION_ of "let them eat cake", to put it glibly.

- To as you say as well earlier, be a face for the markets.

If we chose this explanation, realize the "figurehead effect" is a two way street. A famous CEO makes markets look positively on the company (is the thesis) regardless of the company, so if a company is doing badly, should not that emphasis also be on the CEO? It seems disingenuous that the CEO gets the credit for success but not for failure. I'm not saying this is logical, but it is consistent to placing significant value on a figurehead.

This last argument is the weakest, given that the markets probably take into account perceived CEO skills as part of "figurehead" status, but the BROADER market (sentiment of the people) likely can't inspect that deeply. So if the financial market loves kingmaking, the people get to see a king, and have their own expectations which do go both ways (in terms of lionizing success c.f. elon musk, and demonizing failure)

At the end of the day, each of these universes results in a very negative sentiment towards Mayer, thus my not being as surprised at that outcome.

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#209
post #164
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And the sooner more companies' management as well as workers realize it, the better it will be for all concerned.

i think it's fair (and prudent) to consider workers in strategic vision. on the other hand, to "slowly die while paying the last of its money out to workers" is not reasonable

But to quickly die while paying out the money to owners of preferred stock is okay?

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#210
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It had a top-line of 4.6B, but 1.2B in fixed costs and a little over 3B in payroll expenses. Yahoo's problems have absolutely nothing to do with Mayer having a "nursery" put into her office. She could have taken minimum wage and no other compensation, and no part of this story would have turned out differently, except they might have sold the company by now. Arguments about Mayer's performance on threads like these a…

> Yahoo's problems have absolutely nothing to do with Mayer having a "nursery" put into her office. Of course they don't. That's not the point. Putting a nursery in her office was not a boneheaded blunder because the cost of the nursery (or her salary) made the difference between the company succeeding and not. It was a boneheaded blunder because at the same time she put the nursery in her office she also rescinded a…

Are you looking for someone to argue that Marissa Mayer was Steve Jobs? I'm the wrong person for that.

I'm saying something simple. You claim that Mayer had 4.6B of cash flow to play with turn around Apple. My response is simply (a) no she didn't, and (b) to the extent she had real revenue to work with, it was an encumbrance: she was tasked with turning around a company for which 30% of its income was people routing their search queries to Yahoo. It's hard to think of big moves you can make that don't somehow jeopardize that revenue stream. She's boxed in.

(Then you look at the activist shareholder critiques of her tenure, and it's like, "she spent 10MM buying iPhones for everyone on her staff", and I'm like, it's fucking 2014, almost nobody but Apple has figured out how to make huge amounts of money on mobile but pretty much everyone thinks it's the most important thing in the world to do, and she's, what, buying the staff computers to do that with? Sheesh.)

Did she rise to the occasion and do something unprecedented in business history, like Jobs did? No she did not. Executive hired to do the impossible fails to do the impossible, film at 11.

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