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Ask HN: What should we fund at YC Research?

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Re: Ask HN: What should we fund at YC Research?

#271
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this just for rich people or do poor people get to live for centuries too? "centuries" is far too short-term; "forever" is the goal, and "centuries" just buys enough time to get there. And of course that lifespan should be available to everyone. If the solution itself doesn't already imply a post-scarcity world, then it'll help that once you have a cure for aging, it's more economical to supply that to everyone…

> > Is this just for rich people or do poor people get to live for centuries too? > "centuries" is far too short-term; "forever" is the goal, and "centuries" just buys enough time to get there. And of course that lifespan should be available to everyone. If the solution itself doesn't already imply a post-scarcity world, then it'll help that once you have a cure for aging, it's more economical to supply that to every…

> You do know that every culture, since the beginning of time, has thought that they would live to be immortal in their lifetime. What makes you think you're different? Sure, you might have a better chance, but it's still a slim chance.

A slim chance is infinitely better than no chance at all. How many cultures had even the remotest chance of actually doing something about it?

And no, I'm not certain it'll happen in my lifetime. I'd say that I'd be sad and disappointed if that didn't happen, but really if that doesn't happen then I won't be anything at all. But I still consider it by far the most important problem that could possibly be solved, and worth putting incredible effort and resources towards. I also consider it worth advocating, to encourage others to push for the same goal, or at the very least discourage others from perpetuating arguments that shut down such efforts.

> Actually living forever would be a greater hell than anything I can imagine.

Then don't. But I'd suggest trying it first, or significantly expanding your imagination.

> After the first few hundred years, when you realise that it's never going to end, after you've read every book and done all you've wanted to do, what then?

With all the imagination you can bring to bear, and a universe full of possibilities, you can only think of a few hundred years worth of things to do before you'd not only get bored but get so bored you'd long for death?

To give even a minimal lower bound based on your own comment, books and stories are already being written today faster than they can be read. And that's only one of myriad possibilities. A few minutes imagination can easily produce far more interesting ones.

Do you currently get bored with life and want it to end? If not, then why do you expect that to change in only a few hundred years?

Re: Ask HN: What should we fund at YC Research?

#272
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this just for rich people or do poor people get to live for centuries too? "centuries" is far too short-term; "forever" is the goal, and "centuries" just buys enough time to get there. And of course that lifespan should be available to everyone. If the solution itself doesn't already imply a post-scarcity world, then it'll help that once you have a cure for aging, it's more economical to supply that to everyone…

> > Is this just for rich people or do poor people get to live for centuries too? > "centuries" is far too short-term; "forever" is the goal, and "centuries" just buys enough time to get there. And of course that lifespan should be available to everyone. If the solution itself doesn't already imply a post-scarcity world, then it'll help that once you have a cure for aging, it's more economical to supply that to every…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What should we fund at YC Research?

#273

Food. The food production is not keeping up with the boom in population, specially in the developing nations. In India, where I come from, farmers are running away from Farming. (Because it's not profitable enough to even feed a family and pay for school fees). We desperately need ways to increase the food production, without increasing the land or water usage. A way of doing it can genetic engineering (Supercharged…

Yes.

Vertically plane production within vertical farms, low-watt high-luminance light-emitting plasma bulbs, full-spectrum plant health monitoring systems, fully automated growth (from seed to crop) and harvesting, highly-efficient HVAC systems for cooling and CO2 regulation, aeroponically grown foodstuffs, and electric self-driving delivery vehicles.

A six-storey, 64m^2 (approx. 1 acre) vertical farm can sustain 1,000 people using ~1,500 kilowatts (assuming certain inevitable leaps in lighting efficiency). Or approximately 1,200 homes. New Jersey has a population density of 1218.1 people per square mile. A $2.7 million geothermal power plant would provide sufficient energy for the farm's annual lighting, to give an idea of costs. That power would not be enough to provide the energy for automation or recharging delivery vehicles.

Plants don't absorb much of the green spectrum. If they could be biohacked to use more of the spectrum, the energy requirements could be cut substantially. (Another option is to dramatically improve either laser light or plasma light in the optimal spectrum for a particular crop.)

Additionally, a lot more research needs to be made in finding out how to grow food aeroponically. Currently, I think it's limited to tomatoes, greens, and possibly some tubers.

To introduce minerals into the aeroponic water supply (Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Calcium, Sulfur, Magnesium, Boron, Chlorine, Manganese, Iron, Zinc, Copper, and Molybdenum) requires fish (salmon, catfish, tuna), seawater, crustaceans (crab, lobster), shellfish, fungi, seaweed, and captured elements from an open-loop geothermal plant. Nickel might have to be mined. Ammonia can be coaxed from air, water, and sunlight.

It should be possible to grow, harvest, and deliver food based completely on renewable energies.

Furthermore, certain food crops (cotton [dual-carbon batteries], moss, corn, small citrus fruits) can be used to remake infrastructure components. Like a newt that eats its own tail to grow a new one. Moss and corn waste, I believe, can make carbon fiber or stretched carbon nanotubes. Small citrus fruits, if I recall, can be used as a completely organic (cradle-to-grave) polymer substitute.

Re: Ask HN: What should we fund at YC Research?

#275
Not sure if these are within the scope of what you guys do (a couple are 'out there') but here's some:

- digital currency that doesn't need network connectivity nor blockchain to do a transaction (just device to device)

- systems that actively monitor for suspicious/anomalous network activity and respond in real-time (security that can prevent Sony & OPM hacks) or simply put: security products that will stop the Chinese from hacking US networks

- urban farming

- fish/seafood farming

- batteries from garbage

- products that save rain water - from your home's rain gutter or from the roadside curb - and into a cistern

- a way to lift third-world countries out of their situation so there are no more third-world countries (all of Bill Gates' and Oprah's money have barely made a dent)

- underwater or ocean based communities

- cleaning up the 'Great Pacific Garbage Patch'

- more women/female programmers/engineers (it IS the pipeline and perhaps even the culture)

- an actual, real hoverboard

Are you really going to read all these comments or did I just waste my time writing this??

Re: Ask HN: What should we fund at YC Research?

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've used an unconventional definition of "death" here, distinct from the one thus far used in this discussion. Lack of change seems closer to death than change does. But in any case, whatever definition of death you've used doesn't seem to relate in any way to the ones that people in this discussion have advocated eliminating.

> I think you've used an unconventional definition of "death" here, I mean the thing that everybody else means: ie "pushing up daisies", "feeding earthworms", "to dust", etc If I understand this differently, then it's this perspective I am offering :)

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What should we fund at YC Research?

#277
1/ Mobile education for young [and poor] children: there are scarce resources for teaching children Complementary to the above: making affordable to have a basic robot so kids can learn automating them in the real world instead of the physical screen. I envision a project like One Laptop per Child but for robots.

2/ Affordable Health devices so you can check you up at home or work, probably with you mobile device.

3/ Intelligence amplification.

4/ Attacking pollution

Re: Ask HN: What should we fund at YC Research?

#278
YC Research should fund research on synthetic consciousness based on human models of consciousness. Consciousness research is still un-mainstream enough that there's a common perception that no one has any idea how consciousness works or even what it is, even though we actually know quite a bit:

In particular, the dynamic thalamic core theory of conscious experience (Google it, the author-posted paper requests you don't link directly to it) offers a tremendous amount of explanatory power. From the perspective of engineering a synthetic system, you can build on the model to accommodate any aspect of conscious experience. For example, if you have an "input module" that feeds into a visual recognition network that feeds into a conceptual association network, the conceptual association network can activate neurons in the input module that correspond to the neurons that would be activated when perceiving the visual details corresponding to certain concepts. So the input module becomes a place where multiple simulated percepts of concepts can be activated simultaneously, and then "for free" by the nature of the architecture, you get visual recognition processing of the simulated perceptions combined with "raw" perceptions (or combined with other simulated perceptions). As a bonus, you get language comprehension: after perceiving the visual details of a written word, the system would recognize the associated concept (presuming it had previously learned it) and trigger a simulated perception of the concept. Run this process recursively over a sentence, and the system has a simulated experience which would correspond to the semantic meaning conveyed by the sentence.

The human brain has an architecture that appears quite similar: a specifically layered, recursive connectivity between the thalamus (the "input center" of the brain) and the cerebral cortex (which handles low level recognition and conceptual associations, among other things). Regardless of whether or not the human brain works exactly in the vague way I described: 1. You could engineer a system to perform the tasks outlined above, and the architecture would lend itself to whatever facets of human-like cognition you might be interested in (try it, it's easy). You wouldn't be able to gloss over the details like it's an HN post, but there aren't fundamental roadblocks. 2. Neuroscience research regarding the function of the thalamus and the function of the thalamocortical system is very favorable towards this model (particularly if you factor in the basal ganglia), but more generally--the human brain is nowhere near a "black box". We can't read the brain like a hard drive, but it's plainly not a ball of evenly distributed computational goo where any computation could happen anywhere, anytime. For each individual human, specific patterns of activation in the cerebral cortex correspond to specific perceptions and patterns of activation in the thalamus, which implies... 3. The synthetic consciousness I proposed could be connected to a brain-computer interface (attached to your head) (your head, not mine!) (no I want it give it back) so it can learn to recognize your thoughts (this learning process could be enhanced in various ways; for example eye-tracking combined with a forward-facing camera could help the synthetic consciousness know what you're paying attention to, which adds context for learning to recognize what your thoughts may be about), and because the synthetic consciousness has simulated perceptions in the same region as raw perceptions, you can view its thoughts in real-time as well. It's a white-box architecture.

This kills two massively valuable birds with one stone: you get strong AI (more accurately, you get strong synthetic intelligence; "artificial" starts sounding rude after a point), and you solve the "control problem" because you can use your enhanced knowledge of consciousness to develop systems that have human consciousness merged with synthetic consciousness. "What about the human who's enhanced by the merger with the synthetic intelligence though!?!" The integration with the synthetic intelligence makes the human's brain a white box as well. If you wanted, you could integrate multiple such systems together (to whatever degree is comfortable for the systems). So ultimately the control problem becomes a question of how much we trust ourselves and each other after we can read each other's minds. Yes, it would probably be terrifying initially, but I think we'd get used to it quickly, and there are numerous meditative traditions which might be helpful to anyone who struggled to control thoughts that others found particularly repellent.

After that it's a relatively straightforward recursive self-improvement deal. Eventually you improve the system enough that the biological component is redundant (yay). From there you make sure that whatever you're using for physical presence is generally robust. And if you're not incredibly rude, you might be kind enough to use your enhanced intelligence(s) to figure out how to gracefully share the technology with whatever other humans may want it (because presumably the recursive self-improvement process may happen in a relatively short period of time, and it's unlikely that literally everyone will engage in it at once). You'll have to figure out societal structures that make sense for whatever you all consider yourselves to be at that point. Then dive into advanced physics to figure out how to do whatever you want to do in neat ways, and if you decide to make von Neumann probes, don't send them off until the physics research has tapered off, because you'll probably just be beaten by the newer, faster probes if you're impatient and send a bunch off right at the start.

The timeframe mainly depends on how quickly you can iterate on the self-improvement process. Presumably some of that process is going to involve iterating on hardware (and probably iterating on the process of creating better hardware), but the hardware already exists to make a start. Early speed improvements would come from 1. not having to physically type or use a mouse/touchscreen to interact with a computer (programming at the speed of thought?) and 2. some degree of "telepathy" to help coordinate research. Later speed improvements could come from things like "forking" the synthetic portion to run in parallel for some period of time to learn or do things (can merge "copies" back in afterwards rather than ending them abruptly so that nobody has a bad time). You probably wouldn't want to run the synthetic portion at a rate significantly above your general biological rate of cognition, so that would put some vague upper bound on raw speed improvements until the biological portion is completely redundant.

At any rate, the initial steps are quite straightforward and would make addressing every other issue in this thread go faster. It would definitely be faster to go this route than to try cure aging, for example. Biological aging won't even be relevant at the end of this process, aging by definition involves a superset of the complexity of the human brain alone, and progress on the earlier steps towards curing aging do not increase the speed of progress on later steps towards curing aging.

Re: Ask HN: What should we fund at YC Research?

#279
Federal Drug Administration: The current pipeline for getting new drugs approved is fairly corrupt ($ > merit) and extremely ineffective (time taken) that its a major inhibitor for innovation in biotech, medicine, and medical devices. Doing research to figure out how to streamline and automate this process while giving a fair playing field to everyone, make it not cost-prohibitive to get new quality products approved while not compromising effectiveness (filtering out harmful products)

Re: Ask HN: What should we fund at YC Research?

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans need more lifespan, badly. Do we? Or do we need more realistic perspective about death? Why quantity over quality? Seems there's a lot of quality improvements that could be made [1]. For instance, I read recently (can't recall source) that San Fransisco's homeless is the least happy in the world. Also that the top 1% in the world make over $35K a year, but there are far happier people than exist in middle Am…

> Or do we need more realistic perspective about death? We do: we need to realize how horrible it is that we treat it so casually, rather than as a tragedy. Perhaps then we'll do something about it. > [1] Notice that cancer, heart-disease, Alzheimer, etc research also falls into this category - allowing people to live with less suffering. All three of which (especially the first and last) have heavy ties to aging. It…

I think the key here is to introduce the concept slowly because saying "stop ageing" freaks people out. A lot of people have this idea of what "natural" means and stopping ageing just doesn't sit right with them. I think a better strategy would be to call it "eradicating diseases and higher quality of life towards the end of your life", both of which is really ageing research, but with a better spin.

We've been extending our lifespan for the last century through various technological advances. We are just continuing that trajectory, albeit at a faster pace.

This is a really great scifi short story that is kinda relevant to this: http://www.skyhunter.com/marcs/GentleSeduction.html

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