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Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

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Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#21

Post by CPLX »

Though I agree that this behavior is reprehensible and probably criminal, the comments here seem to miss at least some of the human dynamic here.

I can't hardly imagine that most people posting here would ever consider a job where literally every word or sound that came out of their mouth during their entire working life was recorded, and likely subject to public disclosure. Saying that this is what cops signed up for is not a compelling counter argument either, as this is new and most of the cops in question didn't sign up to work in an environment like that at all.

It seems odd to be even somewhat defending Chicago cops but someone should point out that there are two sides to this.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#22

Post by ghufran_syed »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #13
pjc50 wrote: post #8

Until police are jailed for this, nothing will improve. What's the US equivalent of the Independent Police Complaints Commission?

As I argued elsewhere here, I believe a stronger incentive would be to come after pay and pensions for police units whose officers have cost the municipality millions in lawsuits. Instead of friends and coworkers trying to protect each other for abuses of power, they will instead take on the role of protecting their families' livelihood. You would be less likely to abuse your authority if your entire department and t…

awesome idea, kind of similar to the idea that financial market firms were much more prudent when they were partnerships, whose top members had most of their self-worth tied up in that company. Once outside shareholders owned the stock, it made it much more sensible to make big bets, if you win you get a huge bonus, if not, they cant take away all the money you made in previous years.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#23

Post by s_q_b »

CPLX wrote: post #21

Though I agree that this behavior is reprehensible and probably criminal, the comments here seem to miss at least some of the human dynamic here. I can't hardly imagine that most people posting here would ever consider a job where literally every word or sound that came out of their mouth during their entire working life was recorded, and likely subject to public disclosure. Saying that this is what cops signed up fo…

If you're not intelligent enough to know that law enforcement interactions with the public are recorded on dashcams, maybe you shouldn't go into police work...

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#24

Post by CPLX »

s_q_b wrote: post #23
CPLX wrote: post #21

Though I agree that this behavior is reprehensible and probably criminal, the comments here seem to miss at least some of the human dynamic here. I can't hardly imagine that most people posting here would ever consider a job where literally every word or sound that came out of their mouth during their entire working life was recorded, and likely subject to public disclosure. Saying that this is what cops signed up fo…

If you're not intelligent enough to know that law enforcement interactions with the public are recorded on dashcams, maybe you shouldn't go into police work...

But that's part of my point. When most cops became cops that wasn't the case at all.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#25

Post by themartorana »

moomin wrote: post #12

Just to be clear: what we are looking at is a concerted and coordinated criminal conspiracy to cover up a range of activities including murder.

Yes, this, as simple as this. This isn't a rogue "bad cop" - it's systemic, criminal abuse of power, and the very reason we have separation of powers - so this kind of activity can be checked all the way back to its origins.

Which is pretty much the origin of my disillusionment, since it isn't happening at all, in the face of red-handed evidence.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#27

Post by deskamess »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #17
pjc50 wrote: post #8

Until police are jailed for this, nothing will improve. What's the US equivalent of the Independent Police Complaints Commission?

Part of what stops police from routinely infringing civil rights in the pursuit of justice is the legal doctrine that evidence obtained illegally is inadmissible, as is all evidence gained from further (lawful) investigation based on that evidence [1]. what is needed is a law that operates in a similar way, that states that in any lawsuit or complaint against the police, there is a presumption of guilt on the part of…

"Presumption of guilt" - that's not going to fly is it?

I think the selective absence of evidence where it would normally exist is something that a jury (or investigating organization) should consider within the totality of the evidence presented. That way we can go start from a point of innocence and work our way through.

Why are there options to turn the audio off anyway? In the grand scheme of things what you are trying to protect by turning off audio is likely much less important than the criminal behavior that is coming under scrutiny.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#28

Post by ceejayoz »

elthran wrote: post #16
bdisraeli wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no national body that oversees police, but Chicago has the Independent Police Review Authority. However IPRA rarely upholds complaints against police (it's staffed by ex-cops and other people connected to the police), and recently an investigator was fired after finding a shooting unjustified[1]. [1] http://www.wbez.org/news/city-fires-investigator-who-found-c...

Has this been proposed at all? Is there anything weird about american policing/law that would mean a national, federal agency wouldn't be able to take on this role?

The US Department of Justice does some of this. They sue for civil rights violations, often resulting in a "consent decree" where they either take over the police department or place them under a variety of restrictions.

Ferguson just agreed to one: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/27/464610005/...

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#29

Post by 3825 »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #17
pjc50 wrote: post #8

Until police are jailed for this, nothing will improve. What's the US equivalent of the Independent Police Complaints Commission?

Part of what stops police from routinely infringing civil rights in the pursuit of justice is the legal doctrine that evidence obtained illegally is inadmissible, as is all evidence gained from further (lawful) investigation based on that evidence [1]. what is needed is a law that operates in a similar way, that states that in any lawsuit or complaint against the police, there is a presumption of guilt on the part of…

> The only way to make the police comply is to make it in their self-interest (or at least in the interests of the city that would regularly have to pay out presumptive damages) to make sure they are working.

Part of the problem is that it becomes the cost of doing business for a city. What should happen is that the individual should have to pay those multi million dollar fines out of pocket. Of course, the people who are suing for money know that they'll get more money if they sue the city.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#30

Post by moron4hire »

CPLX wrote: post #21

Though I agree that this behavior is reprehensible and probably criminal, the comments here seem to miss at least some of the human dynamic here. I can't hardly imagine that most people posting here would ever consider a job where literally every word or sound that came out of their mouth during their entire working life was recorded, and likely subject to public disclosure. Saying that this is what cops signed up fo…

Too bad, so sad. It's either give them cameras or take away their guns, and we know what is not going to happen in America.
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