Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Request For Research: Basic Income

blog.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 1001 posts

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#51

Post by mbesto »

notliketherest wrote: post #13

When I talk with people about basic income, my gut reaction and primary argument is that it contrasts with that fundamental human nature that's been show time and again throughout humanity - given a guaranteed, fixed reward no matter how much or how little you work for it, disincentivizes work. It follows along the same lines as why government instituted communism fails. Or why the first version of the mayflower comp…

A negative income tax would solve that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10982391

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#52

Post by jdmichal »

TrevorJ wrote: post #17

I wonder what basic income would do to cost of living? If everyone ends up with x amount of guaranteed income, does the cost of living eventually rise by the same amount across the board and basically negate it? It seems like rent-seeking behavior would come in to play here.

I often have the same inclination of thought with regards to university education and government-guaranteed student loans. If I'm a university executive, and I know that the average student can afford $X, and I know the average student can also receive a guaranteed $Y in student loans... Why would I not set my price at $(X+Y) and take the full rent that I can?

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#53

Post by bargl »

notliketherest wrote: post #13

When I talk with people about basic income, my gut reaction and primary argument is that it contrasts with that fundamental human nature that's been show time and again throughout humanity - given a guaranteed, fixed reward no matter how much or how little you work for it, disincentivizes work. It follows along the same lines as why government instituted communism fails. Or why the first version of the mayflower comp…

I think one of the main arguments I've heard for basic income is that welfare is a pit of failure. Where you can make more on welfare then you can at a minimum wage job.

However, if you have a basic income that "replaces" welfare then no matter what job you get you always make more money. So it's better to have the basic income and work then to just have the basic income.

Of course the problem is MUCH more complex than that, and that is also dependent on replacing welfare not adding basic on top of welfare. Hence the research but this is the basic idea I grab onto to think of how a basic income could be better then welfare.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#54

Post by harryh »

fijal wrote: post #27
harryh wrote: post #4

$10,000 * US_POPULATION ~= $3.2T ~= The total annual tax revenue of the US federal government. Something to keep in mind when discussing this topic.

Federal poverty level is 15930 for a two people family unit, that gives 8000 USD/person/year (slightly below 10k), * 300 mln is 2.4trln. Total income from social security tax (assuming you're replacing all social security with flat just-out-of-poverty basic income) comes to 1.1trln. So definitely short, but assuming 4% annual growth (figure reverse engineered from budget predictions in the futute), that gives us 20 y…

Probably the federal poverty level will be higher than $15,930 in 20 years. For reference, it grew by 59% in the last 20 years.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#55

Post by johnrob »

TrevorJ wrote: post #17

I wonder what basic income would do to cost of living? If everyone ends up with x amount of guaranteed income, does the cost of living eventually rise by the same amount across the board and basically negate it? It seems like rent-seeking behavior would come in to play here.

Inflation is the obvious issue here IMO. If basic income is X, then X really just becomes the new zero. We either need to provide products themselves (free food, housing, healthcare) or somehow lock the price of those things. I suspect both of those tactics will have identical challenges in terms of implementation though.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#56

Post by gizmo686 »

larsiusprime wrote: post #32

What I want to know is whether Basic Income implemented with our current housing and laws about land ownership will just run afoul of the Henry George Theorem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_George_theorem IE, the aggregate value of public spending in an area tends to soak into the land value -- give everybody $X,000 a year and the landlords will dutifully raise annual rents by $X,000.

The Henry George Theorem talks about spending on public goods.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#57

Post by Zikes »

samstave wrote: post #18
harryh wrote: post #4

$10,000 * US_POPULATION ~= $3.2T ~= The total annual tax revenue of the US federal government. Something to keep in mind when discussing this topic.

But that number is misleading. I have a spouse and three children. Does that mean we all will get 10K/yr? I have had a different thought on this in the past; Every child born should have $10K put into an account in their name on the day they are born. It will gain interest and grow until they are 18, then they get the money. And as an adult after 21, they are taxed at some rate to pay back the initial 10K that will t…

How much would that $10k grow in 18 years? Bank of America's "Platinum Honors" interest rate is 0.06%[1], and over 18 years of compounding interest that's only $10,108.55 unless I've messed up my math.

[1] https://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/bank-account-interest...

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#58

Post by mozumder »

jeremysmyth wrote: post #31
notliketherest wrote: post #13

When I talk with people about basic income, my gut reaction and primary argument is that it contrasts with that fundamental human nature that's been show time and again throughout humanity - given a guaranteed, fixed reward no matter how much or how little you work for it, disincentivizes work. It follows along the same lines as why government instituted communism fails. Or why the first version of the mayflower comp…

...given a guaranteed, fixed reward no matter how much or how little you work for it, disincentivizes work...I just think that socialism and communism (which basic income basically is...) Wrong. Basic income lifts the floor. It does not concern itself with the ceiling. Calling it communism is utterly wrong and completely missing the point.

This is key.

No one has ever said "I'm going to stop making money because I have $1."

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#59

Post by jdoliner »

davidw wrote: post #5

There's a very relevant section in this book ( The Second Machine Age: Work, Progress, and Prosperity in a Time of Brilliant Technologies - http://amzn.to/1KFJ1Iu ) , that I just read last night: > "His view is strongly supported by the work of economist Andrew Oswald, who found that joblessness lasting six months or longer harms feelings of well-being and other measures of mental health about as much as the death of…

I've always wondered if its actually the joblessness that degrades people's self worth or the job search that must not be going to well and thus keeps them jobless. Would a person without a job but with a basic income and thus not feeling pressure to get a job experience the same hit to their self worth?
Post reply on HN