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Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

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Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#111

Post by aidanlister »

jhanschoo wrote: post #90
nickff wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other possibility is that going to the parties is a good use of time, and that is where many students develop their networks. In addition to that, signalling theory would indicate that what classes you take and how well you do are much less important than the university you attend and the faculty you graduate from.

Would you say that going to parties outweigh directly networking? Networking might be a benefit, but I'm sure that people go to parties with a different goal in mind, and that the time cost of partying can be better utilized in other ways.

In the undergrad university scene that is being discussed I'm having a hard time visualising what "direct networking" would look like.

However, I can confidently say there's a big difference in the bond formed between two people chugging beer bongs together vs asking someone in a lecture if they'd like to have lunch.

I also think the party scene would be difficult to replicate in terms of the sheer size of your potential network (I make no assertation about the objective quality of that network, but the article suggests it's not what be predisposed to think).

Anecdotally, I've got lifelong friends from both camps; but the people I lean on now in my professional development are the people I partied (hard) with at university.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#112

Post by bau5 »

sotojuan wrote: post #29
rezistik wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like that survey. The lower class is completely unrepresented in tech. It's been one of the weirdest and hardest things for me to handle personally.

I think low-income people who go into tech do not go into start ups. It's a risk. If you fail (very likely), you are back to being poor. I'm a student and notice that a lot of the other low income students and underrepresented groups (of which I am a part of) in my CS program go straight to "safe" jobs, usually enterprise stuff. Actually now that I think about it: I work in my university's IT department, helping out…

Haha. I knew this was coming. You're putting white and asian in one group and blacks and latinos in another group. What should these groups be called, so we don't have to spell it out each time this distinction is made?

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#113

Post by refurb »

sandstrom wrote: post #61
brudgers wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that there is a very strong correlation between a person's educational and socio-economic attainment and those of their parents. The number that sticks in my head is that parental status accounts for 80%+.

This is an article I read on the topic. If you are born to parents in the lowest quartile you have ~10% chance of making it into the highest by age 26. For people born in the highest the probability is ~30%. (and if it was random it would, obviously, be 1/4 = 25%) http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21595437-america...

But that's moving from the bottom to the top. How about from the bottom to the middle? What percentage never leave their quartile?

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#114

Post by indubitablytrue »

WalterBright wrote: post #65
ryandrake wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what's weird and uncomfortable sometimes? Going to lunch with your co-workers and listening to them talk about the awful problems of their lives, like how they wish their maids could come twice a week instead of every two weeks, and how difficult it is that they have to pay [my salary * 0.5] for their kid's private school. How worried they are about things like the stock market and how high the property taxe…

My dad returned from combat in WW2 where 80% of his group were casualties and he expected to die in combat. He said he was amused at the triviality of everyday concerns. "What's your problem, you're not going to die tomorrow!" And really, if you're able-bodied and able-minded and nobody is trying to kill/maim/imprison you, then life is good. I went to retrieve the mail this morning, and was greeted with a bright blue…

I guess the countless number of a veteran civilians with PTSD didn't get your precious dad's memo.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#115

Post by refurb »

AlexWest wrote: post #73
flubert wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what the value is for various types of "privilege"? As in, if you could pay so much and reap the benefits, how much should someone be willing to pay? $1,000? $10,000? $100,000? $1,000,000?

It's relatively easy to quantify pay discrimination against various groups. Emotional pain and civil rights deprivation are harder to quantify, though.

It's relatively easy to quantify pay discrimination against various groups

Is it?

Would you then argue that since Asians in the US have a higher median income than whites, the difference is due to discrimination? If not, then what is the cause?

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#116

Post by refurb »

neilk wrote: post #86
tn13 wrote: post #47

As an Indian immigrant when I see people complaining about Privilege and Inequality in SV (and in America) I feel like laughing. I lived in a society where everyone was almost the same, similar economic status, similar privilege etc. etc. Life sucked. I decided to move out to be among the top 10% instead of one of the 100%. I eventually ended up in SV. This place is awesome and the very reason I am here is because I…

Seriously? What caste did your family belong to? I'm allowed to ask these questions; the Indian side of my family are Brahmins, and boy does it show! Most of us walked straight from the lawyer/doctor/accountant/businessperson class in India into the lawyer/doctor/accountant/businessperson class in the USA and Canada. Sure things were difficult, but most of us had huge advantages.

I'm curious, why would your caste matter in the US?

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#117

Post by indubitablytrue »

tyre wrote: post #52
tn13 wrote: post #47

As an Indian immigrant when I see people complaining about Privilege and Inequality in SV (and in America) I feel like laughing. I lived in a society where everyone was almost the same, similar economic status, similar privilege etc. etc. Life sucked. I decided to move out to be among the top 10% instead of one of the 100%. I eventually ended up in SV. This place is awesome and the very reason I am here is because I…

This is getting downvoted because it is a shallow and selfish outlook on life, but this is not uncommon. Psychological research shows that humans care far more about their relative status than "objective" wealth. Unfortunately, happiness quickly loses its correlation with wealth. Unsolicited advice to the parent: seek out a strong community. Being "better than everyone" is a great path to dying alone.

Giving out unsolicited advice based on wiser-than-thou preaching is a tried-and-true way of projecting relative status.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#118

Post by semerda »

nickff wrote: post #64
yeureka wrote: post #38

This sounds very familiar. When I was in University I didn't understand why some people didn't care about grades and partied so much. When we left school and got into the real world I understood why: they had rich parents with contacts that could get them good jobs or seed capital for their own businesses. I had lots of ideas and worked in a lot of startups for more than 10 years but now the following phrase from the…

The other possibility is that going to the parties is a good use of time, and that is where many students develop their networks. In addition to that, signalling theory would indicate that what classes you take and how well you do are much less important than the university you attend and the faculty you graduate from.

Interesting observation. Anything that creates an emotional bond & takes down walls is going to build long lasting relationships among people. So partying is one of them. Especially if you are at a top school where most of your peers will end up at important places. You want those strong relationships since we all know business is people.

Building a network that's reliable is far more than someone you met at a meetup and added them to your LinkedIn. It starts either at school or through some social functions where one can connect on a deeper level than just a title.

Maybe this is why it's so much harder to form meaningful bonds later in life.

Also makes a good case for formal education and a school that has good signaling ;-)

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#119

Post by refurb »

AlexWest wrote: post #78
TrevorJ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not ok to look at someone's gender, age & race and make assumptions about there life, full stop. Applying a term like 'privileged' to an entire group of people based on a single characteristic is stereotyping at it's worst. This isn't to say that trends don't exist, but it is not ok to assume something about an individual simply because it's true, as a general rule for the group they belong to. Like it or not,…

But that's really the whole point of privilege - belonging to the group is enough to grant you the advantages of it. Period. It doesn't mean your life is great, it doesn't mean you don't have problems, but the members of a privileged class absolutely possess those privileges - that's how it works.

Yes, but people don't belong to one group.

I would argue that height, intelligence, general health, economic class, propensity for addictive behaviors, wealth of your parents, children rearing skills of your parents, closeness of extended family, social network of your family, family religion, access to nutrition, country of birth, access to healthcare (I could go on and on) all help/hurt your potential in life.

Saying that "you're [white, male, rich] so you're privileged" is ridiculous when it only one of probably thousands of different factors that can impact your success in life. It's lazy thinking.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#120

Post by pavornyoh »

haberman wrote: post #108
mikestew wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's frustrating, not a single critique I've seen of PG's essay (including this one) seem to understand what he is actually saying. It's time to start considering that either PG made his point poorly, or that maybe you're the one that didn't understand it. I don't know what other reasonable options there are.

If by "PG made his point poorly" you mean "PG didn't communicate in a way that was misunderstanding-proof", I can agree with you. Inequality is an emotionally-charged subject that is prone to misunderstanding. I think PG underestimated how thoroughly the intellectual basis of his argument would be missed once he uttered the words "I've been helping to increase economic inequality." Most of the critiques of PG accuse…

I think PG underestimated how thoroughly the intellectual basis of his argument would be missed once he uttered the words "I've been helping to increase economic inequality." Most of the critiques of PG accuse him of not caring about poor people. And yet his essay specifically attacks poverty and lack of social mobility:

I have to agree with you. I am actually surprised PG tried to even write a second essay to explain the first one and some people still didn't understand it and it led me to this conclusion and points me to Dale Carnegie's " You can't win an argument"..

Nine times out of ten, an argument ends with each of the contestants more firmly convinced than ever that he is absolutely right.

You can’t win an argument. You can’t because if you lose it, you lose it; and if you win it, you lose it. Why? Well, suppose you triumph over the other man and shoot his argument full of holes and prove that he is non compos mentis. Then what? You will feel fine. But what about him? You have made him feel inferior. You have hurt his pride. He will resent your triumph. And -

"A man convinced against his will

"Is of the same opinion still."

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