Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley • Hacker News Board

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#101

Post by TrevorJ » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 1:33 AM UTC

AlexWest wrote: post #78

TrevorJ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not ok to look at someone's gender, age & race and make assumptions about there life, full stop. Applying a term like 'privileged' to an entire group of people based on a single characteristic is stereotyping at it's worst. This isn't to say that trends don't exist, but it is not ok to assume something about an individual simply because it's true, as a general rule for the group they belong to. Like it or not,…

But that's really the whole point of privilege - belonging to the group is enough to grant you the advantages of it. Period. It doesn't mean your life is great, it doesn't mean you don't have problems, but the members of a privileged class absolutely possess those privileges - that's how it works.

The problem with that definition is that it's nearly impossible to apply that to an individual without bias.

It predisposes us to assume that the privileges possessed by an individual are one of the primary drivers of the experiences they have had in their life. Privilege isn't uniformly distributed across all members of a group.

Let's say that group Y enjoys a much higher college acceptance rate. Due to their privilege, 80% of applicants from group Y are accepted to college. Do the 20% of applicants from group Y who were denied also posses the privilege of greater rates of college acceptance? Is it right for me to assume that since an individual belongs to group Y, they have personally benefited from this particular privilege?

Let me be clear: I think that taking a hard look at inequalities between groups and seeking to ameliorate them is the right thing to do, and something we should all be doing. What I find problematic is using broad statistics to make assumptions about individual people.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#102

Post by gsnedders » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 1:33 AM UTC

yeureka wrote: post #38

This sounds very familiar. When I was in University I didn't understand why some people didn't care about grades and partied so much. When we left school and got into the real world I understood why: they had rich parents with contacts that could get them good jobs or seed capital for their own businesses. I had lots of ideas and worked in a lot of startups for more than 10 years but now the following phrase from the…

> When I was in University I didn't understand why some people didn't care about grades and partied so much. When we left school and got into the real world I understood why: they had rich parents with contacts that could get them good jobs or seed capital for their own businesses.

I'm not from the US, so I obviously can't tell if the same is true there (and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't, given the sheer cost of tuition): here, there's a strong push for most people to go to university straight out of high school because that's what's done if you're at least averagely smart as you need to to get a well-paid job (or so the story goes, regardless of its truthfulness).

At the same time, many people don't really know what they want to do (and degrees here lack the breadth of those in the US), so they end up dicking around a lot, going out partying, because they have no real focus. They don't care about their grades—they don't even care about university—it's purely a means to an end (i.e., getting a decently paid job), and when that end is more than a couple of years away while you simultaneously get your first taste of freedom as an adult, it's hard to care about effects that are years away.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#103

Post by ginsurge » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 1:34 AM UTC

This really resonates with me, I was the first person in my family to go to university, and my grandparents had to work multiple jobs when they migrated from Europe in order to survive. My dad did slightly better, but both my parents only had high school education and worked blue collar jobs.

It does make it really hard to change your mindset when you come from this sort of background, when you've achieved more than anyone in your family and therefore can't really talk to them about your ambitions or career objectives.

It sounds awful, but sometimes I wish I had been born into a different family, with highly educated parents I could have amazing conversations with, who would encourage me to achieve and grow even more.

I find I constantly have a mindset of "I'm not good enough" and it's paralysing. I want to interview for the top tech jobs out there, like Google or Facebook, but my brain keeps telling me I'm not good enough, it's awful.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#104

Post by ryandrake » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 1:35 AM UTC

"I'm a self made millionaire [0]"

[0] - Apart from the safe suburban upper class childhood, the prep school and Harvard education my parents paid for, the job at Goldman Sachs my uncle got me straight out of school, and the finance network from that experience that eventually helped me with my first funding rounds, but yea, besides all that I'm TOTALLY SELF MADE!

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#105

Post by paulv » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 1:37 AM UTC

13thLetter wrote: post #57

paulv wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...if you think having privilege means that you’re a bad person, or that you haven’t had struggles, or that you haven’t worked hard for what you have – then I can totally feel why you might be frustrated. If that were the case, then yes, it’d be completely unfair of me to claim that all white people or straight people or men or people of any other dominant group are living easy off their unearned privileges. But hav…

Then perhaps Ms. Johnson should take that up with 90% of the people who use the word "privilege" in arguments nowadays, because they're not using it the way she thinks they're using it.

I don't think it's solely Ms. Johnson's job to tell people that they're using the word wrong. Now that you know the meaning, you can help us spread the knowledge (like I did by sharing that link).

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#106

Post by throwaway999888 » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 1:39 AM UTC

nickbauman wrote: post #71

There's a strong thread of meritocracy in the tech community, but there is no such thing. When you choose the clearly better developer over the other, you're often choosing the one who had better resources growing up, not just natural ability. The poorer developer may have had a natural advantage over the other one, but didn't have the money to develop it as much. So you're really just selecting for wealth all over a…

> When you choose the clearly better developer over the other, you're often choosing the one who had better resources growing up, not just natural ability.

Ahh, but natural ability is just as much of a privilege as having a fortunate upbringing! Both are essentially unchosen, born-with things; you can't choose your inborn talents, and you can't choose your parent's resources.

Really, what you're scoffing at is learned skill and saying that born-with skill is better, for whatever reason.

But meritocracy[1] just means "only results matter". It doesn't matter if you worked your ass off for 30 years in acquiring skills that bring results, against all odds (whether genetic or externally imposed). Or if you were just born with it and hardly had to put in any effort.

[1] Whether that is a reality or not; doesn't matter for the sake of the argument.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#107

Post by indubitablytrue » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 1:42 AM UTC

ginsurge wrote: post #103

This really resonates with me, I was the first person in my family to go to university, and my grandparents had to work multiple jobs when they migrated from Europe in order to survive. My dad did slightly better, but both my parents only had high school education and worked blue collar jobs. It does make it really hard to change your mindset when you come from this sort of background, when you've achieved more than…

You are very hardworking, talented, and special. You have risen above your station. God only knows what a person of your caliber would have achieved if you had had a more fortunate background.

I hope that this message massaged your ego to a satisfactory degree.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#108

Post by haberman » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 1:42 AM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #92

haberman wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's frustrating, not a single critique I've seen of PG's essay (including this one) seem to understand what he is actually saying. This essay supports PG's point, it doesn't contradict it. PG's essay calls out "kids with no chance of reaching their potential" as "very bad" aspect of inequality in the fourth paragraph! What essay did you read?

It's frustrating, not a single critique I've seen of PG's essay (including this one) seem to understand what he is actually saying. It's time to start considering that either PG made his point poorly, or that maybe you're the one that didn't understand it. I don't know what other reasonable options there are.

If by "PG made his point poorly" you mean "PG didn't communicate in a way that was misunderstanding-proof", I can agree with you. Inequality is an emotionally-charged subject that is prone to misunderstanding. I think PG underestimated how thoroughly the intellectual basis of his argument would be missed once he uttered the words "I've been helping to increase economic inequality."

Most of the critiques of PG accuse him of not caring about poor people. And yet his essay specifically attacks poverty and lack of social mobility:

> Let's attack poverty, and if necessary damage wealth in the process. That's much more likely to work than attacking wealth in the hope that you will thereby fix poverty.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#109

Post by jsonne » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 1:43 AM UTC

danielvinson wrote: post #56

keithba wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is this: http://www.kauffman.org/what-we-do/research/2010/05/the-anat...

"More than 90 percent of the entrepreneurs came from middle-class or upper-lower-class backgrounds" I'd like to offer a potential explanation of this: Middle and upper-lower-class individuals have the most to gain by doing things on their own. * An upper-lower-class or middle class child will not have the same burdens and problems as a lower-class individual as describes in this post. They likely have just enough of…

Yep this is exactly it I believe. I come from a very middle class background. My dad is mechanic and my mom is a teacher. If I wanted to move up in the world this is the best route. I had neither the business connections nor the ability to afford an Ivy League school. That being said, I was lucky enough to go to a state school and for my parents to support me for about 6 months while I got my company making revenue. So your 2 conditions seem to hold true.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#110

Post by dpweb » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 1:46 AM UTC

tyre wrote: post #52

tn13 wrote: post #47

As an Indian immigrant when I see people complaining about Privilege and Inequality in SV (and in America) I feel like laughing. I lived in a society where everyone was almost the same, similar economic status, similar privilege etc. etc. Life sucked. I decided to move out to be among the top 10% instead of one of the 100%. I eventually ended up in SV. This place is awesome and the very reason I am here is because I…

This is getting downvoted because it is a shallow and selfish outlook on life, but this is not uncommon. Psychological research shows that humans care far more about their relative status than "objective" wealth. Unfortunately, happiness quickly loses its correlation with wealth. Unsolicited advice to the parent: seek out a strong community. Being "better than everyone" is a great path to dying alone.

>> This is getting downvoted because it is a shallow and selfish outlook on life

Another way to read it is: coming to America for opportunity and upward mobility..

I don't find the 'I seek wealth' shallow or selfish, rather the true feelings of most Americans. We worship money and status in this country too often.

Outrage at this - is encouraging, but not from the SV crowd - they seem quite interested chasing massive wealth themselves.