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Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

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Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#121
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, but it's unclear how the "find my iphone app" could ever lead to reasonable suspicion by itself. Among other things, they seemed to be cooperating, not resisting, and all the evidence is from a third party—no immediate evidence would have produced any reasonable suspicion. This is an abuse of police power from a position of ignorance. Do you really think that would hold up in court? I sincerely hope not. The man…

yes it will hold up in court. Police don't let suspects out of detention just because they complain they have to pee. High-tech state-of-the-art tracking technology from Google and Apple indicates that these people are somehow involved in the disappearance of a missing person. How dumb would the officer look if he let a suspect destroy evidence, escape, or otherwise pull something on the claim that they have to pee?

> How dumb would the officer look if he let a suspect destroy evidence, escape, or otherwise pull something on the claim that they have to pee?

There's a lot of ways in which the American system is deliberately set up to let some of the guilty go free and requires a certain degree of responsibility for those detained, charged, or imprisoned in order to preserve a set of rights that are important related to basic human dignity.

So yeah, particularly in situations like this, I'm comfortable saying sure, risk the possibility that (as yet established) evidence might be destroyed or that subjects of interest might escape detention. Strict detention practices should be sustained by meeting a high standard for suspicion.

But maybe better than that would be if we could have a system that included both reasonable pursuit of justice and a respect of basic rights. Seriously. Is it really impossible to give detainees and opportunity to urinate while protecting evidence? I doubt it. Search the damn bathroom, then search the detainee. Then, unless you've found anything that absolutely requires further undisturbed careful investigation and documentation, escort them to the bathroom for a reasonable amount of time. Part of the job. Particularly when you don't know that they're guilty of anything.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the article that would also mean they're kidnappers and/or murderers so it might be best to avoid playing the Devil's advocate on this one.

Or... They are involved with people who steal, buy or refurbish stolen phones.

I wish the article mentioned where all these people are coming from. If they're all local then that could lend credibility to that explanation. If they're from all over the country then that doesn't seem as likely. The thought did cross my mind.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#123
post #9

My money is on a wifi SSID that matches the one used by thieves or a heavily-trafficked location the victims all pass through. My company moved ~5 blocks and it really screwed up the map on my phone (which I use to get around the city) for several months. My company had left the network SSID the same in the old location, so that no one had to re-configure their wifi. Even with GPS on, my phone was always convinced it…

Unfortunately, it's not likely that there is anything they can do to change this. This is just a record in a database somewhere now and until that record is changed (and propagated everywhere) this will continue to happen for them.

I was vaguely expecting the location to be somehow "significant", like this one that anybody who's ever done much geolocation/mapping work probably immediately recognises if they've used data without sufficient validation:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/0%C2%B000'00.0%22N+0%C2%B0...

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#124
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The police shouldn't be able to detain someone for over an hour without probably cause and without arresting them. They can't. The police officer in question was wrong and they did not exercise their rights.

they have the right to detain those people on reasonable suspicion.

It appears (on the information given) that the police did neither: they didn't lawfully detain the suspects or control their actions through a legally authorized manner (e.g. arrest them, serve a warrant on them), but the police did restrict their actions (prevented them from entering the house).

It seems on the face of it that the police inhibited the victims' legal rights, without exercising a legally authorised reason to do so (or relied on misinformation to suppress the victims awareness of their legal right to choose to not comply with the police officers' requests).

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#126
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, but it's unclear how the "find my iphone app" could ever lead to reasonable suspicion by itself. Among other things, they seemed to be cooperating, not resisting, and all the evidence is from a third party—no immediate evidence would have produced any reasonable suspicion. This is an abuse of police power from a position of ignorance. Do you really think that would hold up in court? I sincerely hope not. The man…

yes it will hold up in court. Police don't let suspects out of detention just because they complain they have to pee. High-tech state-of-the-art tracking technology from Google and Apple indicates that these people are somehow involved in the disappearance of a missing person. How dumb would the officer look if he let a suspect destroy evidence, escape, or otherwise pull something on the claim that they have to pee?

There's nothing in the article to say that the residents were arrested. An arrest is the threshold for controlling someone's legitimate actions: if the police don't have enough evidence to arrest the person, then they shouldn't be limiting their movements. That is the whole point of arrest (and the related burden of proof required to make an arrest).

To restrict someone's actions without legal authority - such as arresting them - is illegal.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, and has absolutely nothing to do with this case. The police were just doing their job searching for a missing girl and had strong evidence that her phone was in the house. And people here are outraged. It's absurd. The point of the fourth amendment is to stop excessive or abusive searches, not all searches ever. Second I think some of the police hate is just availability bias. If you read nothing but art…

> The point of the fourth amendment is to stop excessive or abusive searches, not all searches ever. "Stop and frisk" and "asset forfeiture" means anything to you? And it's not just the US where police commonly fabricates evidence, in particular when it comes to drug or gun "offenses".

>"Stop and frisk" and "asset forfeiture" means anything to you?

And I agree that those are unconstitutional. But again it has nothing to do with this case.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess that the find my phone apps have greater than 99% accuracy. Just not 100%. I'm disturbed by how anti-police HN is. Like even searching for a missing person is now some great abuse of power.

People tend to be pro-police right up until the day when they find themselves the target of a police officer who knows what they can get away with.

I'm not pro-police, I'm just not so absurdly anti police that I think everything they do is an abuse of power. Yes I know there are police that abuse their power. But they didn't do anything wrong in this case. They were just doing their job searching for a missing girl and had strong evidence that her phone was in the house.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#129

What's sad is how the local police seem to have some sort of learning disability or amnesia about this problem. They showed up there repeatedly and harassed the occupants.

Disclaimer: I agree with the intent of your comment but, as this is the second time I've seen this comment in this thread, I'll bite and play devil's advocate. Additionally, I have absolutely no knowledge of dispatch or any other law enforcement software. Where would the knowledge of this phenomena be stored? Does the dispatch software have a notes field? If so, is it procedure to put that sort of information in plac…

I would hope that the police do have a systematic method of correlating incidents with addresses. Such as, say, a history of reported domestic abuse. Or homes with residents that have been threatened with doxxing or swatting. And information such as whether the resident is a recorded gun-owner.

I would sincerely hope that information such as this would be available to any officer dispatched to an address.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#130
post #118
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An amusing example of this sort of problem shows up sometimes on airplanes with onboard WiFi. If the phone doesn't get a GPS lock right away (common when you're in a metal tube) then it may show the position based on the mapped location for the hotspot MAC address, which is often at a completely different airport. Obviously, Skyhook isn't driving around mapping airliners, but I think these days they have the mobile d…

Maybe the industry should assign a bit in the BSSID to indicate a mobile AP that shouldn't be used for mapping purposes.

Maybe private data like BSSIDs shouldn't be used for mapping purposes in the first place.
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