Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#91

Post by chad_strategic » Thu, Jan 21, 2016, 11:45 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #86

beeboop wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stories like this further my conviction to simply never answer the door if it's a police officer unless they specify having a warrant. They can't detain you if you don't answer, and chances are the officer will escalate the situation on his own if he wants a reason to detain you. There is nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Civilized society depends on the cooperation of the law abiding populace. It's your civic duty to answer the door. It's a categorical imperative.

Obey at all costs!

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#92

Post by chad_strategic » Thu, Jan 21, 2016, 11:48 PM UTC

BatFastard wrote: post #67

It's the man-bun that guy is wearing. Phone's are set to hunt those guys down and beat the crap out of them.

Man-buns are lame, but beating the crap out of them seem a little extreme for sarcasm

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#93

Post by Houshalter » Thu, Jan 21, 2016, 11:48 PM UTC

mentat wrote: post #44

pjc50 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had probable cause: the last reported location of a missing teenage girl was their house.

Reported by something that has <90% accuracy? Less than 99%? It matters...

I would guess that the find my phone apps have greater than 99% accuracy. Just not 100%.

I'm disturbed by how anti-police HN is. Like even searching for a missing person is now some great abuse of power.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#94

Post by njharman » Thu, Jan 21, 2016, 11:48 PM UTC

beeboop wrote: post #39

patrickmay wrote: post #20

I found this particularly disturbing: > In June, the police came looking for a teenage girl whose parents reported her missing. The police made Lee and Saba sit outside for more than an hour while the police decided whether they should get a warrant to search the house for the girl’s phone, and presumably, the girl. When Saba asked if he could go back inside to use the bathroom, the police wouldn’t let him. > > “Your…

Stories like this further my conviction to simply never answer the door if it's a police officer unless they specify having a warrant. They can't detain you if you don't answer, and chances are the officer will escalate the situation on his own if he wants a reason to detain you. There is nothing to gain and everything to lose.

I think you can count yourself lucky if they bother knocking...

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#95

Post by harryh » Thu, Jan 21, 2016, 11:49 PM UTC

chad_strategic wrote: post #91

harryh wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civilized society depends on the cooperation of the law abiding populace. It's your civic duty to answer the door. It's a categorical imperative.

Obey at all costs!

Avoid engaging with the issue at hand, but instead respond with a witty catch phrase!

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#96

Post by stevep98 » Thu, Jan 21, 2016, 11:50 PM UTC

Bjartr wrote: post #88

pjc50 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had probable cause: the last reported location of a missing teenage girl was their house.

Then they could get a warrant and there would be no question that they could enter the premises for a search. They did not, so they could not.

Missing child...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exigent_circumstance

"An exigent circumstance, in the criminal procedure law of the United States, allows law enforcement, under certain circumstances, to enter a structure without a search warrant or, if they have a "knock and announce" warrant, without knocking and waiting for refusal."

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#97

Post by mentat » Thu, Jan 21, 2016, 11:51 PM UTC

nanofortnight wrote: post #55

mentat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reported by something that has <90% accuracy? Less than 99%? It matters...

'Probable cause' doesn't require 99% accuracy. It's a legal term with a well-defined definition. 'Probable cause' is slightly higher that 'reasonable suspicion' but much lower than 'beyond all reasonable doubt'. Essentially, it boils down to: Would a 'reasonable man' (another technical term) suspect that something is the case? If yes, one has reasonable suspicion.

Reasonability breaks when the implementation requires technical knowledge to assess and has specific undisclosed issues in cases that matter.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#98

Post by rayiner » Thu, Jan 21, 2016, 11:52 PM UTC

cmiles74 wrote: post #26

craigmccaskill wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would not the location tracking telling them the girls phone was inside the house be probable cause? Seems more reliable than a dog alerting on a car.

Whoever said that the phone location tracking was anywhere near this level of reliable? IMHO, it's really only good as a sort of hint on where your phone _might_ be.

That's probably not a fair description of the accuracy of the technology. Out of a random sample of 100 locations, how often would the technology yield the right house? I bet it's over 50%, which is definitely sufficient for probable cause.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#99

Post by njharman » Thu, Jan 21, 2016, 11:53 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #38

What's sad is how the local police seem to have some sort of learning disability or amnesia about this problem. They showed up there repeatedly and harassed the occupants.

So, get police to come out for X when you haven't done X. Then do X and police should ignore it cause last time they had evidence of X it turned out to be wrong?

Police should always investigate. They should have history of previous investigations, but that should not stop them from future investigations.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#100

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Jan 21, 2016, 11:57 PM UTC

stevep98 wrote: post #96

Bjartr wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they could get a warrant and there would be no question that they could enter the premises for a search. They did not, so they could not.

Missing child... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exigent_circumstance "An exigent circumstance, in the criminal procedure law of the United States, allows law enforcement, under certain circumstances, to enter a structure without a search warrant or, if they have a "knock and announce" warrant, without knocking and waiting for refusal."

None of the criteria there would be satisfied. With them detained outside the house and not allowed to return inside, they can't harm the victim, escape, or destroy evidence.