Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 412 posts

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#191

Post by gsibble »

mschuster91 wrote: post #12

> Remarkably, the United States government was able to tax all that productive corporate behavior so much that it came close to paying off all its debts for the first time in 160 years. The current US debt is over 18.900.000.000.000 $ ( http://www.usdebtclock.org/# ). Am I getting the author right that the US managed to put on 18 B $ in 20 years?!

The article is entirely wrong about this, which discredits the author's assumptions about everything else they described entirely. The US was nowhere near paying off its debts. It was just close to not accruing any new debt for about a year or so. We still had trillions in debt and never reduced it.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#192

Post by macintux »

slavik81 wrote: post #121
macintux wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the dawn of the 2nd Bush administration, the US was projected to pay off its debt within ~10 years. The tax breaks and wars following 9/11 wrecked that projection, obviously.

This chart illustrates the cost of those policies: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/2...

Hmm, maybe my recollection of 10 years to pay off the debt is incorrect.

In any event, I remember the exact moment my dreams of having the debt paid down died: when Greenspan went before Congress to testify on the Bush tax cuts. He gave them the political cover they needed.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#193

Post by andrewjl »

npalli wrote: post #104
Animats wrote: post #88

The US is out of demand. Workers are spent out. Thus, there's no need to increase output, because nobody has the money to buy it. The US has huge excess manufacturing capacity, thousands of malls which could handle more traffic ("there's always parking at Sears", a rather pathetic ad), and services which could handle more business. There's a glut of capital, plenty of available unemployed or underemployed workers, no…

> The US is out of demand How is the US out of demand? Peak consumption years of population are between twenties and fifties and the biggest cohort of US demographics - the millennials - is just getting started. They crossed over the Boomers last year and now are the largest group. Behind them the younger (Gen Z) equally large in size is ready to backfill in another 15 years. It is true that demand from Boomers is do…

Lots of millennials are deep in debt due to student loans. Also, with jobs being more precarious, I wouldn't be surprised to see a much higher individual saving rate for the millennial cohort. This would then correspond with lower aggregate discretionary consumption.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#194

Post by secstate »

I think my favorite part of this article is realizing how deep we all are in spin ... "disinflation"? What the hell is that?

Do you mean "deflation"?

But for pity's sake, let's not call a spade a spade and use the word "stagflation" which is what Japan went through, and where the US is heading. The Fed can't give banks money fast enough and consumer spending is stagnating. Sounds like a recipe for stagnating inflation to me.

EDIT: My bad ... disinflation refers specifically to a decrease in inflation. Stupid English beating me again with a word for everything ;)

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#195

Post by linkregister »

dsp1234 wrote: post #161
seiji wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even medium to highly paid workforce members aren't entirely capable of spending en masse these days. I'd love to stop paying $3500/month in rent, but any property to buy around here has a median price of $1.2 million. Unless we all move to rural Indiana, housing + healthcare is designed to eat 100% of your after-tax income with no room for further growth. (of course, that's assuming you're just a putz serial employe…

In Portland, OR, my healthcare is 4% and my 2k+ house in the burbs (30 min commute) is At $3500/mo (about $750k house), there are over 500 house available right now[0] just in the actual city of Portland (not including suburbs). And that's just limiting it to 2bd 1.25ba (and above) detached houses (not including condos, duplexes, etc) It's totally possible to work and live somewhere other than California. [0] - https…

Aren't you leaving out the most important differentiation between Portland and SF?

The amount of available jobs and their salaries is vastly different in each location.

One minute of searching for "software developer" on indeed.com:

SF: 7,223 jobs, median $95k Portland, OR: 1,222 jobs, median $80k

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#196

Post by jqm »

sgt101 wrote: post #99
chatmasta wrote: post #69

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the geopolitical advantages of hoarding cash. A big pile of untaxed, uninvested cash represents a significant political bargaining chip for the corporation in control of it. Apple can extract more from negotiations with the US government, for example, when it's holding $100b USD offshore. Quite simply, that money is leverage. Over the next several decades we will see the decline of…

I think it's a liability. The US government can at any time tax that cash, and if Apples execs refuse to pony up then they can have fun in jail. If the US government decide to do that....

The government is slow and clumsy but Apple hires fast lawyers and lobbyists. So I wouldn't count on that.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#197

Post by andrewjl »

BatFastard wrote: post #147
Animats wrote: post #88

The US is out of demand. Workers are spent out. Thus, there's no need to increase output, because nobody has the money to buy it. The US has huge excess manufacturing capacity, thousands of malls which could handle more traffic ("there's always parking at Sears", a rather pathetic ad), and services which could handle more business. There's a glut of capital, plenty of available unemployed or underemployed workers, no…

Not in my neighborhood. The few malls are packed, have to search for a space anywhere. Commercial real estate is going crazy! 10s of thousands of apartments going up all over. Any place decent to eat has a wait. Demand is rocking in Midtown Atlanta!

Midtown Atlanta is near Georgia Tech if I remember correctly. Anecdotally I've noticed that areas with a concentration of knowledge intensive industries and/or universities are much more economically vibrant than the rest of the country.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#198

Post by wavefunction »

simonh wrote: post #55
mschuster91 wrote: post #12

> Remarkably, the United States government was able to tax all that productive corporate behavior so much that it came close to paying off all its debts for the first time in 160 years. The current US debt is over 18.900.000.000.000 $ ( http://www.usdebtclock.org/# ). Am I getting the author right that the US managed to put on 18 B $ in 20 years?!

Not really. It's a bit partisan on tone, but the actual debt graph on this article is interesting. Basically there have been three big changes in direction for US national debt since WW2. Sharp upturns on Reagan and George W's watches, and a strong downturn under Clinton's. http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

At first blush I wonder if the downturn under Clinton's administration is related to reduced defense spending due to all the base closures during that time period.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#200

Post by andrewjl »

I doubt that the current political climate would allow for this but I wonder what would happen if the U.S. implemented a basic income program and put in place extensive support for building out more knowledge based clusters across the nation. Places like NYC and the Bay are are doing VERY well overall. (That's also where many of the corporations with large balance sheets are based.)

Specific additional things I'm thinking of include free tuition, low cost small business / creative studio financing.

Post reply on HN