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Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

nytimes.com

61–70 of 412 posts

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#61
post #18

> Remarkably, the United States government was able to tax all that productive corporate behavior so much that it came close to paying off all its debts for the first time in 160 years. The current US debt is over 18.900.000.000.000 $ ( http://www.usdebtclock.org/# ). Am I getting the author right that the US managed to put on 18 B $ in 20 years?!

Yeah, I'm not sure what the author was trying to say there, because that's not even close to true. The US wasn't getting anywhere near to paying off the national debt in the 1990s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_St...

At the dawn of the 2nd Bush administration, the US was projected to pay off its debt within ~10 years. The tax breaks and wars following 9/11 wrecked that projection, obviously.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#62
What if it's just people (exec) thinking that we are going to see a huge contraction in liquidity in the next 10 years? It could be an early warning that the central banks have injected too much money into the economy and the economy, saturated, instead of surrender to hyperinflation has "decided" to put the money under the pillow before is scarce (higher interest rates again).

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#63
post #22

Theoretically the value of all that cash should be baked into the share price. If shareholders think they can better invest the money, they can sell their shares take their money elsewhere, and only have to pay capital gains tax. If the companies repatriate the cash, they have to pay tax right now which eats up a substantial percentage. Then they still have to find something to do with the cash. If they pay it out to…

Shareholders have to sell the business AND the cash together. That's the concern. If you want to invest in the say 10% ROI business, you have to also invest in the 0% ROI cash hoard at the same time, at a fixed proportion.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#64

> Remarkably, the United States government was able to tax all that productive corporate behavior so much that it came close to paying off all its debts for the first time in 160 years. The current US debt is over 18.900.000.000.000 $ ( http://www.usdebtclock.org/# ). Am I getting the author right that the US managed to put on 18 B $ in 20 years?!

No. In the 90s, there was a brief period where the US managed to not have a deficit (ie, it was taking in as much as it was spending). The US has never eliminated its debt, nor should it; that would essentially mean withdrawing the US dollar from circulation.

It would mean withdrawing Treasury bonds, not the dollar.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#65
post #2

It's the same reason I save my money: for opportunities when prices are low. This is especially relevant now that the stock market is tanking. Most people with any kind of money think this way.

When everybody is thinking that way about capital purchases, you get a deflationary spiral...

Only until people with money decide that prices are low.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#66
post #2

It's the same reason I save my money: for opportunities when prices are low. This is especially relevant now that the stock market is tanking. Most people with any kind of money think this way.

> It's the same reason I save my money: for opportunities when prices are low The problem is: how do you know if the time is right (i.e. ten years later you can say "I invested in the lowest possible price")? Possibility A: you invest too early, stock drops further and you can't recover in a reasonably long time frame (e.g. 1 year) Possibility B: you invest too late, and people who invested before you made more profi…

You don't know. Nobody knows. So you make your best guess, and you don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#67
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a corporation, the traditional thing to do with cash you don't need is to return it to your owners, either through dividends or through share repurchases: If the owners wanted to own money sitting in a bank account, they could put the money in a bank account themselves. If they wanted to own a company, they'd be better off owning just the business part without a chunk of low-return cash attached. Beyond basic liqu…

Could they just be trying to put off paying their taxes until a Republican gets elected and lowers the rates?

I doubt even a Republican would be willing to lower corporate income taxes. Nominal rates haven't been touched for quite a while; politicians opted instead to just allow the loopholes and safe havens to continue lowering the effective rate, and corporations seemed to be happy about that.

The likely reason for corporations holding onto cash is the lesser impact deferrals can make in today's markets. Companies are becoming larger and larger umbrellas every year, and as the need to hire new people presents itself, the unfortunate realization for them is that they must look to the bigger cities for their best talent. NYC, LA, SF, DC, etc., are the best places to acquire talent, and they are also home to some of the highest tax rates in the country.

This makes talent acquisition increasingly expensive, and that means less money that can go to the offshore safe havens that allow deferrals to be so lucrative for companies. So, companies hire as little as possible, and though corporate revenues are decreasing rapidly as a result, it's better for them than having to face a rather unstable business environment in the US, where all your massive infrastructure and talent investments may be useless in just a few years' time.

I believe that the US is becoming increasingly unfriendly to businesses, and the lack of political cooperation in DC is showing executives just how true that reality is. My contention is that businesses are holding onto cash because they may need to make sudden and quick moves in the near-future. They will either make huge hiring moves and will build out massive new infrastructure to support it -- or they will GTFO of the US while they have the chance.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trillion. Here's a chart of debt as a proportion of GDP: http://dailyreckoning.com/dr-content/uploads/2015/06/Histori...

Why is it that people always talk about only one side of the accounting ledger? The US has a net worth of nearly $150 trillion dollars. Who cares about the absolute value of debt?

The federal government doesn't own the entire country. What's the net worth of the federal government?

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#69
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the geopolitical advantages of hoarding cash. A big pile of untaxed, uninvested cash represents a significant political bargaining chip for the corporation in control of it.

Apple can extract more from negotiations with the US government, for example, when it's holding $100b USD offshore. Quite simply, that money is leverage.

Over the next several decades we will see the decline of the nation state as the primary geopolitical powerbroker. Corporations already exert significant control over politics, and this trend will only continue.

Perhaps what the executives see that us plebes do not, is that this geopolitical shift has already begun, and is much further along than anyone realizes.

Re: Why Are Corporations Hoarding Trillions?

#70

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the geopolitical advantages of hoarding cash. A big pile of untaxed, uninvested cash represents a significant political bargaining chip for the corporation in control of it. Apple can extract more from negotiations with the US government, for example, when it's holding $100b USD offshore. Quite simply, that money is leverage. Over the next several decades we will see the decline of…

Sigh, I was really hoping Cyberpunk stories from the 80s wouldn't turn out to be prophetic.
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