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All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

theatlantic.com

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Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#201

Post by winter_blue »

Dr_tldr wrote: post #90
Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #7

I think it's worth pointing out that education is a filtering mechanism, if a terribly inefficient one. After basic maths and literacy are learned, it imparts little on the average student. A collage degree is a proxy for a reasonable IQ and moderately high conscientiousness. Thinking of education as an inefficient filtering mechanism helps illustrate why our frenzy for more education is misguided. Certainly more eff…

This sounds a lot like the "Just World" fallacy under the cover of genetics. At one point 99% of the population was illiterate and living in thatch huts, and no doubt members of the elite at that time also considered this to be an expression of natural order as well. But as it turns out, almost all of those peasants were capable of learning to read, doing algebra, engaging in abstract reasoning, labor coordination, a…

Thank you for saying this. It's too sad how far wide spread this incorrect idea is.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#202

Post by sosuke »

pc86 wrote: post #199

Am I the only one that finds it odd after reading an article about someone making $11/hr in factory losing their job, the top-voted comment (and a good number of the replies) is one lamenting their $150k salary?

I think that illustrates, emphasizes even, how unbalanced the society is. You feel poor at $15k, $50k, $100k and even the dual income families of $250k feel on a razors edge.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#203

Post by pc86 »

sosuke wrote: post #202
pc86 wrote: post #199

Am I the only one that finds it odd after reading an article about someone making $11/hr in factory losing their job, the top-voted comment (and a good number of the replies) is one lamenting their $150k salary?

I think that illustrates, emphasizes even, how unbalanced the society is. You feel poor at $15k, $50k, $100k and even the dual income families of $250k feel on a razors edge.

I think it illustrates very little about society, but quite a bit about human nature.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#204

Post by dsong »

pc86 wrote: post #199

Am I the only one that finds it odd after reading an article about someone making $11/hr in factory losing their job, the top-voted comment (and a good number of the replies) is one lamenting their $150k salary?

They're not complaining about their salary, they're complaining about the distance they feel from family members because of a gap in economic situation.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#205

Post by elsherbini »

pc86 wrote: post #199

Am I the only one that finds it odd after reading an article about someone making $11/hr in factory losing their job, the top-voted comment (and a good number of the replies) is one lamenting their $150k salary?

I don't think that is a very generous reading of the OP. To me they commented in passing that their salary isn't enough to buy a house, but they were mostly lamenting their sister's situation, not their own.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#206

Post by lmm »

collyw wrote: post #97
watmough wrote: post #16

There is simply not enough 'work' any more. Here's a thought. Why can't we as a society ensure that everyone is paid a living wage according to their need. It may take a while, but I believe this will be the only way that we can hold this society* together. * Deep irony here, speaking as one of 'Thatcher's children'.

So I guess every street around you is perfectly clean, you never have to wait for a doctor appointment and your life works with 100% efficiency? Of course there is plenty of work that needs done. The resources to pay for it are misallocated.

My streets are clean enough. I see a doctor quickly enough in terms of the problems I have. I wouldn't pay for improvements in either.

Many people simply don't have the skills or ability to contribute real value to the modern economy. 50 years ago simple physical labour was a valuable economic contribution and remunerated accordingly; today there's a constantly shrinking pool of minimum-wage jobs.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#207

Post by laotzu »

pc86 wrote: post #203
sosuke wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that illustrates, emphasizes even, how unbalanced the society is. You feel poor at $15k, $50k, $100k and even the dual income families of $250k feel on a razors edge.

I think it illustrates very little about society, but quite a bit about human nature.

What does it say about human nature?

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#208

Post by TeMPOraL »

colechristensen wrote: post #80
Spooky23 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people yearn for purpose, family, and community. I think of my grandparents and how they lived their lives. My mom's dad was a NYC Sanitation worker, among other things. They lived frugally and eventually had a small summer cottage in the country. He had an 8th grade education, because his family in Ireland couldn't afford more. Yet he taught himself calculus up to the calc 2 level. That whole cohort of grandpar…

We lost religion because the morals and beliefs it was pushing seemed ridiculous. In that we threw the baby out with the bathwater. The community and purpose went out and didn't get replaced. Some people didn't lose religion, but replaced it with something with equal devotion. You can see many of the same behaviors (including the negative ones) with people and their zealous appreciation for political parties, sports…

> We lost religion because the morals and beliefs it was pushing seemed ridiculous.

While this is true to an extent, I wonder how much it was because the morals and beliefs pushed by religion seemed ridiculous compared to morals and beliefs promoted by the entertainment industry. You know, the the 'do whatever, fuck whoever', focusing just on the positive side and ignoring the negative side - painting the picture that in the worst case, you'll be a famous person (celebrity dramas).

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#209

Post by mooreds »

Wildgoose wrote: post #115

Not just America, America is just leading the pack. And from an English perspective I certainly wouldn't eulogise the Unions in the way this article does either. My father (now retired) was a member of the EETPU (Electrician's Union). It was seen as a "right-wing" Union because its constitution banned communists from holding any positions within the Union - but that was because communist activists and their aggressiv…

> In the UK there used to be a massive culture of socialising in "pubs" (public houses, or "bars").

I'm actually a member of a fraternal organization (like the masons) where exactly this kind of social mingling happens. It is fantastic.

Anyone looking for more social support, consider joining one of these clubs (if you have time, which I know is a scarce commodity). They are desperate for new members, and often own assets/property.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#210

Post by laotzu »

meric wrote: post #10

What is society's ideal for the average white working class? What is "success"? Is it better looking houses? More expensive cars? Fresher food? Is it getting to live in a very expensive nursing home when they retire? Is it equality where both husband and wife are responsible exactly 50% in finances, chores and taking care of the kids? Or have the time & money to spend a lot more time with the kids; Will welfare help…

What do you really want?
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