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What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

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Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#131

Post by isnullorempty »

hluska wrote: post #115
sheraz wrote: post #105

Office environments today are like minefields. A man never knows when his next step, word, or simple action will be misconstrued as harassment. Hold a door? Thats harassment. Wink ;-) in an email or IM? Thats harassment. Tell an off-color joke? Thats harassment. Complement female coworkers outfit? Thats harassment. Stand too close in an elevator or inline at the canteen? Thats harassment. Getting caught looking looki…

Come on, that is bullshit. Simply, don't go out of your way to be an asshole. Genuine compliments are fine. Leering is wrong. Sexually suggestive comments or winks in emails are wrong. Don't treat anyone as a lesser form of life. This is so fucking simple and it makes for a better work environment for all.

So what are you supposed to do if you are attracted to someone at work, never make a move? Women need to be more forgiving and take it as a compliment, unless someone continues after a clear rejection (which is the definition of harassment).

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#132

Post by fsloth »

mbrutsch wrote: post #61
EliRivers wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When something like this happened to her, she was perfectly capable of opening her mouth and telling the person that their behavior was unappreciated. Good for her. What happened next was that the offender moved on to someone else, and when they found someone who wasn't so confident as your mother, sexually assaulted her. It's nice that you wonder why people don't stand up for themselves, but you should be careful th…

> What happened next was that the offender moved on to someone else, and when they found someone who wasn't so confident as your mother, sexually assaulted her. Uh, no, but I can see how your expectations have been molded to believe this is the only possible "thing that happened next". > but you should be careful that people don't accidentally think that you're ascribing blame to the victim. No accident. The "victim"…

"No accident. The "victim" shares the responsibility of standing up for themselves. This culture of victimhood has helped no one but Tumblr."

A sexual harassment is analogous to a situation where a person hits another person, the other person fails to duck/block and gets hit in the face. I really can't see how the victim could be responsible for getting hurt.

The fact that some people have practiced the art of boxing and could have avoided it easily does not change this situation.

Person-to-person interaction is quite different from feeling victimized due to a general phenomena.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#133

Post by sheraz »

hluska wrote: post #115
sheraz wrote: post #105

Office environments today are like minefields. A man never knows when his next step, word, or simple action will be misconstrued as harassment. Hold a door? Thats harassment. Wink ;-) in an email or IM? Thats harassment. Tell an off-color joke? Thats harassment. Complement female coworkers outfit? Thats harassment. Stand too close in an elevator or inline at the canteen? Thats harassment. Getting caught looking looki…

Come on, that is bullshit. Simply, don't go out of your way to be an asshole. Genuine compliments are fine. Leering is wrong. Sexually suggestive comments or winks in emails are wrong. Don't treat anyone as a lesser form of life. This is so fucking simple and it makes for a better work environment for all.

No it is not bullshit.

This whole topic is filled with loaded words like "harassment" and "victim."

Furthermore, workplace harassment laws are tipped in the females favor. If she even perceives something, then it happened.

If you think that sending a wink to someone is treating them as a lower life form, then I don't think there is much I can say...

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#134

Post by sheraz »

bigethan wrote: post #124
sheraz wrote: post #105

Office environments today are like minefields. A man never knows when his next step, word, or simple action will be misconstrued as harassment. Hold a door? Thats harassment. Wink ;-) in an email or IM? Thats harassment. Tell an off-color joke? Thats harassment. Complement female coworkers outfit? Thats harassment. Stand too close in an elevator or inline at the canteen? Thats harassment. Getting caught looking looki…

s/A man/Oblivious Sheraz/

I have my own REGEX!!!! Upvote this everyone

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#135

Post by 49531 »

jneal wrote: post #11

I'm not going to speak directly regarding the way this individual handled this situation, but in general, if you experience any form of sexual harassment I highly recommend you speak with HR immediately following the incident. Don't allow it to escalate, things can only get worse. Even if it's your first day on the job, you should never feel speaking to HR regarding an incident is a bad idea.

The sad part is that at a lot of companies doing this will mean your time at the company is coming to a close. I've seen co-workers who complain to HR go from being an important team member to being managed out of the organization. It seems that a lot of the time a corporation will remove the culprit along with the victim to keep themselves safe.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#136

Post by enraged_camel »

mbrutsch wrote: post #108
enraged_camel wrote: post #77

I have a feeling that if your mother read this comment she would tell you to cut this shit out.

Perhaps. She did not live long enough to experience the "culture of victimhood" herself, so I can't say what she would have done. I do know she wasn't fond of the idea in the 70s and 80s, and regularly eschewed the notion that she was any different from any of the men with whom she worked. But the fact that she was a "quiet" feminist, that did things, rather than talking about doing things, leads me to believe you ma…

>>"culture of victimhood"

You seem to have trouble between people who play the victim for attention (which is what that phrase refers to) and those who are actually victims. Just because some victims are capable of defending themselves doesn't change anything.

Your mother was a victim too.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#137

Post by y04nn »

y04nn wrote: post #84
zzleeper wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that often you might not be entirely sure about what's going on. In her case, the kiss in the cheek might just be cultural confusion (in Spanish-speaking countries we do that even with strangers). Of course, after the lap thing... I don't even have words... How can you treat other people like that.. you are put in a position of power/responsibility and they use it to degrade others..

I feel like she is lacking self confidence, personality. Is she living in a fantasy world where everybody is kind? I was not here, so I don't want to juge, but she has only been asked to sit on ones lap, she could have strongly refuse and asked why she would do that in the first place. She should have shown strong signs of rejection, express the fact that is make her uncomfortable and asked him to stop. If he does no…

Again I don't want put any judgement, but maybe the lap thing was only a bad joke, it all depends on how it is asked. And maybe there was a misunderstanding between the 2, she could have taking thing too seriously while the manager was trying to lighten the mood.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#138

Post by pc86 »

isnullorempty wrote: post #131
hluska wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, that is bullshit. Simply, don't go out of your way to be an asshole. Genuine compliments are fine. Leering is wrong. Sexually suggestive comments or winks in emails are wrong. Don't treat anyone as a lesser form of life. This is so fucking simple and it makes for a better work environment for all.

So what are you supposed to do if you are attracted to someone at work, never make a move? Women need to be more forgiving and take it as a compliment, unless someone continues after a clear rejection (which is the definition of harassment).

You do not need a "clear rejection" to make something harassment. If I've never spoken to someone but I spend ten minutes a day staring at her chest, that's harassment.

If I ask someone out, they say yes, and keep rescheduling 100 times, me continuing to ask them out and not take the (subtle, non-obvious) hint is still harassment.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#139

Post by ethbro »

ruraljuror wrote: post #49
mtrimpe wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed; never trust HR to do the right thing. HR will choose the approach they believe minimizes risk to the company. If they believe kicking you out instead of your harasser is less risky they won't hesitate twice to do so. I can confirm that from personal experience. If you can afford it get legal advice first ... and then go to HR.

I would disagree with this advice. Unless you have a good reason not to trust your particular hr department for this situation, you should put in a good faith effort. Perhaps you could argue that most hr departments are incompetent, but I cannot imagine a scenario where retaliating against an employee for reporting sexual harassment would minimize a company's risk. Also I believe most employment discrimination employ…

> I cannot imagine a scenario where retaliating against an employee for reporting sexual harassment would minimize a company's risk.

As the initial point of contact for a sexual harassment complaint, beginning to construct a paper trail that explains the superior's behavior and puts blame for the incident on the employee?

I'm not saying this as pro- or anti-HR, just that as the document-keeper of record they have a lot of latitude to influence the narrative if they choose to. Remember: performance reviews tend to go through them at some point as well.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#140

Post by 4k »

qb45 wrote: post #4

> In the span of a week, I went from feeling excited and motivated about my job to feeling lethargic, anxious, and unenthused. (...) I was kissed on the cheek, asked to sit on my manager’s lap, told about my manager’s sex life and virility (...) There exists a breed of narcissists who are so incapable of tolerating rejection that they will consistently ignore every sign of it. In fact, the less you are satisfied with…

I am member of a minority, and have had more than one chance to go to the HR to report "being racially abused" and present the narrative in such a way that anyone would be convinced it was horrible.

Firstly, what happened to her is definitely misconduct, but not sexual harassment. I get the impression that the "victim" here is trying to take advantage of the situation. She never asks the inappropriate person to stop here, instead goes to HR. I mean just in plain words "Please don't, this is inappropriate." would stop most such behavior from happening again in huge majority of cases.

> During the HR investigation that ensued, I remember being shamed by a female colleague who thought I was blowing the situation out of proportion. She thought I was being overly sensitive, and that it was wrong of me to report my manager. That hurt. I thought she would’ve naturally supported me.

"Being shamed"? What if that female colleague honestly thought that she was blowing the situation out of proportion? A mere disagreement is shaming? Just because someone thinks they are 'sexually harassed' doesn't make them right automatically. I mean is there any scenario where someone claiming they are harassed could be on the wrong side of the things (or blowing things out of proportion)? It seems the SF/valley area atleast is too politically correct to even entertain the possibility that the female could possibly be wrong or making a mistake. Anyone that doesn't agree with a narrow notion of SJW equality is literally the devil. And this sort of trend has made 'being victim' a somewhat coveted status that can be used for gaining publicity/career advances.

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