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An open letter of gratitude to GitHub

github.com

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Re: An open letter of gratitude to GitHub

#71

Post by pbowyer »

mpdehaan2 wrote: post #21

Posting this right after some good suggestions for the service was given feels like this is saying it is wrong to make suggestions for GitHub because they have done good things. This to me, itself, is wrong. The GitHub issue tracker does need to change. While it's great for OSS that projects can get a leg up SOONER, GitHub does introduce it's own problems by having some watered down tooling in some areas. I'm STILL a…

> The GitHub issue tracker does need to change.

Does anyone like any bugtracker?

That's a serious question. I've never used one that was a joy to use as a submitter (GH's issue tracker is one of the better ones, as it's so simple) or as a maintainer. As a maintainer I've found them really frustrating in general; JIRA has been one of the better ones for me.

Any consensus on 'decent' trackers?

Re: An open letter of gratitude to GitHub

#73

Post by _pmf_ »

gkya wrote: post #11

I find the current situation with Github very unhealthy, because, even though very unlikely, someone can literally pull off the plug of open-source. Not all, but a great part. If such thing happened, be it with government intervention or some crazy attack towards github, it would make us lose a lot time migrating to other solutions. It would be like a Great Barbaric Invasion of Open Source, where everyone migrated to…

> I find the current situation with Github very unhealthy, because, even though very unlikely, someone can literally pull off the plug of open-source.

It's not very unlikely; it's something that will definitely happen at some point (in the case of SourceForge, well over a decade). Most projects will migrate away, but there will be losses.

Re: An open letter of gratitude to GitHub

#74

Post by sanderjd »

_greim_ wrote: post #62
mpdehaan2 wrote: post #21

Posting this right after some good suggestions for the service was given feels like this is saying it is wrong to make suggestions for GitHub because they have done good things. This to me, itself, is wrong. The GitHub issue tracker does need to change. While it's great for OSS that projects can get a leg up SOONER, GitHub does introduce it's own problems by having some watered down tooling in some areas. I'm STILL a…

> The GitHub issue tracker does need to change. Popular bug trackers suffer particularly from a curse all popular software faces: a constant barrage of criticism from a variety of user bases with disparate needs. Appeasing any one of these alleviates a tiny portion of that pressure, while permanently ratcheting up complexity, which leads to accusations of bloat, steep learning curves, and eventual abandonment. Faced…

I think if they communicated that consistently and clearly, people would be disappointed, but they would understand. After all, Github's users are developers who probably struggle with these same product trade-offs. The biggest problem is the lack of transparency or feedback in the product process.

Re: An open letter of gratitude to GitHub

#76

Post by Gorbzel »

joshmanders wrote: post #52
Gorbzel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That letter didn't feel ungrateful or malicious at all to me, but I sure hope it didn't come off that way to others. It might have; software engineering is a big tent, and people who touch Github (in at least someway) no doubt comprise a huge part of it. Full disclaimer, I'm biased, as I opened an issue attempting to address some potential editorial/tone issues, and the initial response was not good (a big part of…

> a big part of that may be questions of who exactly is "involved" with the letter. Being someone who's helping with the `dear-github` repo, why does WHO is behind the repo matter? Does it change the reflections of the community who've come out to support it and sign it?

We agree, I don't think it matters. I initially believed based on the "petition" nature of the letter and adding signatories that it was going to be an inclusive effort.

Which is why I've asked and received absolutely no answer as to why one of the dear-github organizational "owners" (as labeled on Github) responses to my issue inquiry was to tell me who he was, then use that to determine my issue was not constructive.

Re: An open letter of gratitude to GitHub

#77

Post by Gorbzel »

DannoHung wrote: post #42
Gorbzel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That letter didn't feel ungrateful or malicious at all to me, but I sure hope it didn't come off that way to others. It might have; software engineering is a big tent, and people who touch Github (in at least someway) no doubt comprise a huge part of it. Full disclaimer, I'm biased, as I opened an issue attempting to address some potential editorial/tone issues, and the initial response was not good (a big part of…

> Full disclaimer, I'm biased, as I opened an issue attempting to address some potential editorial/tone issues Is this your issue? https://github.com/dear-github/dear-github/issues/47 If so, the way you've written your issue is almost incomprehensible and your point is seriously irrelevant to the requests made by the project creators.

I'll admit that it was later in the evening and has been a long week, and also that the line between being opinionated and being an opinionated jerk is sometimes thinner than it may initially seem.

However, while it's not the normal type of (technical, to the point) issue that one sees on a github project in that it deals with questions of values, intentions, and whether all product companies that FOSS projects use have an obligation to maintain similar values as those projects, it's not irrelevant. It's absolutely central to why Github hasn't responded thus far and whether they'll even pay attention to this (and arguably if they should).

But if we're lobbing attacks at one another, you don't even try to explain why it's "seriously" irrelevant. Also, the visible response I've gotten thus far from people claiming to be involved with this project has been nothing short of circlejerk. No measured consideration of what actions are being taken, no attempting to understand other people's viewpoints, nothing. Yet when I try to determine who's who and what's what, apparently that's irrelevant, even think it's always people claiming to be "involved" with dear-github who bring it up in the first place.

Re: An open letter of gratitude to GitHub

#78

Post by V-2 »

msellout wrote: post #16
gkya wrote: post #11

I find the current situation with Github very unhealthy, because, even though very unlikely, someone can literally pull off the plug of open-source. Not all, but a great part. If such thing happened, be it with government intervention or some crazy attack towards github, it would make us lose a lot time migrating to other solutions. It would be like a Great Barbaric Invasion of Open Source, where everyone migrated to…

The bug tracking data might be tough to replicate, but everything else is stored on each contributor's machine. I think recovery time wouldn't be so bad.

In projects that are community-based, it would be a matter of recreating this community too. This involves humans and isn't as simple as restoring a backup, there would be much inertia.

Re: An open letter of gratitude to GitHub

#79

Post by xorblurb »

bachmeier wrote: post #47
mmcclure wrote: post #4

I assume this is a response to the "Dear Github" letter. I'm fairly certain that everyone involved in that letter (including myself), is very appreciative of Github and its impact on OSS. That letter didn't feel ungrateful or malicious at all to me, but I sure hope it didn't come off that way to others. What I do frequently see with Github, is that they've managed to work their way into almost being beyond reproach.…

> they've managed to work their way into almost being beyond reproach Yep. It's annoying as hell when I tell someone I use Bitbucket and they try to get me to change to Github. And I'm not talking about for FOSS repos, they want me to convert my free Bitbucket repos to paid Github repos, because Github. > A (by all indications), very profitable product that wants to make money off you. That is its goal and purpose in…

Also remember about Sourceforge. I guess some people could have been in the mood to write gratitude letters to them at some point in the past.

(Does not mean that GitHub is "bad" or be useful for some free software projects right now, just that from where I am I don't think there should be a special reason to thank such a company in the name of "Open Source" -- at least also thank Linus Torvalds to begin with!...)

Re: An open letter of gratitude to GitHub

#80

Post by joshmanders »

cdubzzz wrote: post #18
mmcclure wrote: post #4

I assume this is a response to the "Dear Github" letter. I'm fairly certain that everyone involved in that letter (including myself), is very appreciative of Github and its impact on OSS. That letter didn't feel ungrateful or malicious at all to me, but I sure hope it didn't come off that way to others. What I do frequently see with Github, is that they've managed to work their way into almost being beyond reproach.…

> I'm fairly certain that everyone involved in that letter (including myself), is very appreciative of Github and its impact on OSS Well then sign this one too (:

Done, I signed it with `dear-github`, so anyone who signs `dear-github` proxies their signature to `thank-you-github`
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