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Project Rider – A C# IDE

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Re: Project Rider – A C# IDE

#201

Post by JonathonW »

txdv wrote: post #187
m_fayer wrote: post #7

As a Xamarin developer, I'm really hoping that this plays well with Xamarin and thus liberates me from having to deal with the buggy and invasive Windows 10. I'd much prefer to be on Mac but once you're used to Visual Studio, Xamarin Studio is really a bitter pill to swallow. Can't wait!

What is bad abotu Xamarin Studio?

It's gotten better (especially recently), but Xamarin Studio tends to be pretty buggy-- I've seen basic project management tasks (like adding/moving files) crash the IDE; I've had syntax highlighting just stop working for files that compile fine; UI editors are slow, don't match the feature sets of the equivalent native editors, and occasionally break backwards compatibility with themselves (seriously; had the iOS UI editor wipe out some of its own generated code and break my build a couple weeks ago). Again, it's nowhere near as bad as it was about a year ago, but it's still the weak point of Xamarin's toolset (which is, otherwise, pretty great, at least for what we're doing with it).

Re: Project Rider – A C# IDE

#202

Post by gravypod »

SuddsMcDuff wrote: post #132
alkonaut wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't feature bloat (lots of people need feature X, some others need feature Y). The problem is that you can't properly uncheck/select features you don't want yet in the instealler, so you end up with a lot of stuff you don't need. For performance: If you ask me what is more expensive computationally: Crysis or an IDE; I say an IDE can at least as performance hungry. Nothing strange with that. Try writing…

I couldn't disagree more, VisualStudio is a glorified text editor - there is absolutely no reason for its monumental system requirements. Microsoft have completely forgotten about the core functionality of the product - programmers writing code. Instead they've bloated the thing down with many, many 'features' which only detract from that core functionality. If you look at something like Atom with the Omnisharp plugi…

I could not have said it better myself.

Re: Project Rider – A C# IDE

#203

Post by unusximmortalis »

firephreek wrote: post #170
gelasio wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried all of JetBrains tools over and over throughout the years since I keep hearing about how much some people like their stuff - but every single time I am disappointed at how over-engineered everything they do seems to be. Furthermore, their cross platform tools like IntelliJ IDEA always wreak of badly emulated native components that don't look or behave the way that they should on any OS. So for me - Visual…

What you call over engineered I call common sense capabilities that get out of my way. There isn't any thing (non platform specific) that I can do in VS that I can't do better and faster in the IDEA platform. And with the tooling consistency, in can jump between stacks and Stillman maintain the same functionality.

this is a very interesting debate is there a list of features side by side? or a comparative study that lists pros and cons? I do not think over-engineering is a subjective term, also common sense :) yes, between them there's lots of levels but one is at one extreme and one is at the other. so I guess, a good analysis of these two IDEs could be make with a good level of objectivity from the author.

Re: Project Rider – A C# IDE

#204

Post by notrom »

danielcarvalho wrote: post #189
gelasio wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried all of JetBrains tools over and over throughout the years since I keep hearing about how much some people like their stuff - but every single time I am disappointed at how over-engineered everything they do seems to be. Furthermore, their cross platform tools like IntelliJ IDEA always wreak of badly emulated native components that don't look or behave the way that they should on any OS. So for me - Visual…

I've had literally the opposite experience. Everything I seemed to need, IntelliJ IDEA magically had. I just ended up uninstalling things like pgAdmin, for example, since IntelliJ IDEA is just far superior at doing the same thing, and it's just right there where you code. Convenient. Usually it started out as, "I wonder if it can..." and then quickly find the feature that just does what I want. Even as a Windows user…

Take a look at Visual Studio Code. I too have this (probably unfounded) resistance to using full blown Visual Studio for projects outside of work, but have found Code pretty good for developing Javascript and HTML etc. Nice and light, pick a directory as a project, good GIT integration, reasonable text editor, built in debugger etc.

For me it's a good balance between a straight up text editor and full IDE.

Re: Project Rider – A C# IDE

#205

Post by robwilliams »

to3m wrote: post #169
robwilliams wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never used Resharper but Visual Studio's Intellisense is incredibly powerful. What's lacking in its autocomplete support?

I'm not the same guy, but what I've found: - No substring completion (e.g., like emacs's ido-mode), no fuzzy completion (e.g., like various JS-based editors), no acronym completion (e.g., like emacs) - Navigation bar searches are shit. You have to select namespace, then class, then symbol, and there seems to be no keyboard shortcut for any of this stuff. It should present a list of entities in the file, display fully…

All but the first bullet point deal with something other than autocomplete, and (as another user mentioned) CTRL+, takes care of many of your other points.

Re: Project Rider – A C# IDE

#206

Post by ruraljuror »

alkonaut wrote: post #199
ruraljuror wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Resharper a lot, but I do found that a lot of the features I use in Resharper are baked right into VS. For example, in Resharper Ctrl + T navigates to a symbol by name. That is Ctrl + , in VS. The code analysis/improvements/suggestions is definitely great though, at least for a while.

I haven't used a "naked" VS for a few versions, how long has it had proper giro type/file/symbol navigation?

2010 (improved in 2013) according to this blog post. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/mvpawardprogram/2013/10/22/...

Re: Project Rider – A C# IDE

#207

Post by shadowwolf007 »

louthy wrote: post #160
shadowwolf007 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to say this, but a lot of your issues might also be coming from the TFS integration. I know I used to have a bear of a time with random crashes and issues. Since switching to git & resharper I have had a much, much easier time. With 1 notable exception of 1 huge project. On large, 40+ project, solutions it seems like Visual Studio just falls on its face. Our new team is redirecting toward microservice approach…

> I hate to say this, but a lot of your issues might also be coming from the TFS integration. I suspect some of the problems are, for sure - our big internal project is a multi-million line app, maybe 70-80 csprojs. VS2013 dealt with it OK, but had its occasional problems (the TFS issues weren't occasional though), VS2015 is much worse in general. It's very unstable. My open-source project LanguageExt [1] uses git an…

Yeah - not surprised the DNX stuff is wonky.

It seems like every time there's a new project format the first version is just really awful. I think they really only test it on small almost toy-level projects thoroughly but fully conjecture.

That's a very cool project though - what got you going on that? If I could convince my coworkers to not kill me for doing so, I would try to introduce using that at work :-) I've definitely gotten them on to the immutability by default train of thought tho - a lot of people very happy with that mindset considering how much of work has become parallel processing. It's amazing how much faster you can do things like build invoices of thousands of items when you can process the whole thing in parallel :-D

My pref has always been command line tbh - getting away from TFS was the best thing that ever happened for me.

Re: Project Rider – A C# IDE

#208

Post by plexicle »

Delmania wrote: post #152
dimgl wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already debug Node.js applications in Visual Studio Code so they may provide DNX debugging eventually.

I think you can on OSX/Linux. It's not on Windows. If I had to guess, it's because VS Community exists.

I was debugging a Node app on Windows with VSCode about 20 minutes ago.

Re: Project Rider – A C# IDE

#209

Post by to3m »

robwilliams wrote: post #205
to3m wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the same guy, but what I've found: - No substring completion (e.g., like emacs's ido-mode), no fuzzy completion (e.g., like various JS-based editors), no acronym completion (e.g., like emacs) - Navigation bar searches are shit. You have to select namespace, then class, then symbol, and there seems to be no keyboard shortcut for any of this stuff. It should present a list of entities in the file, display fully…

All but the first bullet point deal with something other than autocomplete, and (as another user mentioned) CTRL+, takes care of many of your other points.

The original point was about the whole thing, so I thought I'd sort of reply to both ;)

Re: Project Rider – A C# IDE

#210

Post by eropple »

SuddsMcDuff wrote: post #132
alkonaut wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't feature bloat (lots of people need feature X, some others need feature Y). The problem is that you can't properly uncheck/select features you don't want yet in the instealler, so you end up with a lot of stuff you don't need. For performance: If you ask me what is more expensive computationally: Crysis or an IDE; I say an IDE can at least as performance hungry. Nothing strange with that. Try writing…

I couldn't disagree more, VisualStudio is a glorified text editor - there is absolutely no reason for its monumental system requirements. Microsoft have completely forgotten about the core functionality of the product - programmers writing code. Instead they've bloated the thing down with many, many 'features' which only detract from that core functionality. If you look at something like Atom with the Omnisharp plugi…

As said elsewhere in this thread, every feature you describe as "bloat" doesn't actually run until you tell it to. The features that make Visual Studio feel slow are things like IntelliSense, which is pretty goddamn core to the actual writing of code, not the fact that there's a visual designer for a few things. And code analysis is--wait for it--a pretty hard problem that perturbs a lot of electrons to do correctly, regardless of language or what particular program is kicking it off.

"But bloat!" is never an argument. Point to what it actually does to harm your experience if you want to formulate an argument; "it exists" is a nonsensical kvetch.

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