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Freenode sucks

bramcohen.livejournal.com

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Re: Freenode sucks

#41

Post by cookiecaper »

sailormoon wrote: post #4
yan wrote: post #2

" and I hope you realize that you just completely pissed off one of the most well known and respected people in the whole open source community" Funny thing about respect, is it takes a while to build up and can be lost in a heartbeat. edit: what's interesting is how respectful the freenode admin was throughout this whole transcript. If anything, kudos to freenode.

While it's true that Cohen acts like a bit of a douche, I think his point is rock solid. 60 days expiration for lack of use is ridiculous. And the admin he spoke to may have stayed polite, but his glib refusal to do anything to solve an obvious problem, while endlessly reciting some BS rules out of some FAQ somewhere as if they were unbreakable laws of physics, is a terribly attitude and reminds me of the most disint…

I respect Cohen less for this. He has contributed good things to OSS which we all appreciate, but that doesn't mean that we need maintain reverence for him regardless of his actions.

I would much rather employ and/or associate with a "kind and humble soul" that writes mediocre software than an arrogant dickface who writes excellent software. Clock cycles are much cheaper than tolerance and faith, which diminishes upon exposure to such a man.

Re: Freenode sucks

#42

Post by metaforth »

If you read the comments one reason FreeNode is in disarray is because Rob Levin who ran the site died in a bicycling accident a few years ago.

In fact the chaos and drama at FreeNode might be the real story here.

http://bramcohen.livejournal.com/72298.html?thread=1000554#t...

Fragglet writes (in the comments):

"This shouldn't be surprising to anyone with any experience of Freenode. Freenode is a perfect example of how open source projects tend to acquire the personality of their founder. In the case of Freenode, that founder was Rob Levin, famous for his online begging over wallops and for being completely incompetent in general. Levin's incompetence, begging and dictatorial style where he branded everyone who disagreed with him a "troll" gradually alienated all the sensible and technically skilled people from the network staff until the only people left were his equally incompetent sycophantic underlings.

"When Levin died several years ago as a result of his own stupidity (riding a bike without a helmet), they took over. I haven't heard of mquin before but it looks like the cycle continues.

"Your best option is to close the Freenode channel and move to OFTC, the staff of which consist mostly of the sensible and technically skilled people who left Freenode."

Here are some links with more details,

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/01/29/buy_a_piece_of_net/

http://antisec.wordpress.com/2006/06/27/eyeballing-rob-levin...

Re: Freenode sucks

#43

Post by cookiecaper »

markpercival wrote: post #29
dschobel wrote: post #24

Bram Cohen's Aspergers is well-publicized ( http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_43/b41050468... ) and essential context for anything you read about/by him.

"Cohen never sought a formal diagnosis but turned his considerable attention to the matter" Self-diagnosis. Are you fucking kidding me? Just because you were picked on in highschool and are a huge pain in the ass to work with, doesn't mean you have Aspergers. Guess what, Bram Cohen's probably just an asshole who writes good software.

I agree and am really sick of self-diagnosed "Aspies". Asperger's is the new ADHD, which is to say, the new favored scapegoat for an awkward child (or adult in this case). This will only get worse as publication of Asperger's increases; there's a new movie coming out about some guy with Asperger's, I expect it to do bad things.

ADHD remains the favored scapegoat for a disobedient or hyperactive child.

Re: Freenode sucks

#44

Post by SwellJoe »

judofyr wrote: post #37
jeff18 wrote: post #16

For future reference, a good way to handle this would be: "The #bittorrent channel on Freenode has been getting trolled hard lately and I no longer have access to it due to the following policies that I think suck: . After talking to a Freenode support member, they refuse to budge on these so I have moved #bittorrent to irc.bittorrent.com, please join us there!" Wrong way to handle it: Paste the transcript of you sma…

Even better way (IMO) to handle it: Register a new nick, ask a Freenode support member to give him OP-access to #bittorrent. Ban trolls - have lunch.

Except the FreeNode channel registration process takes months or years (I'm not entirely sure it works at all for already claimed channels, even if the prior claimant has no relation to the project, and there is no doubt of the claims of the new person attempting to register). You'll starve to death if you plan to have lunch after ops are obtained.

Re: Freenode sucks

#45

Post by cookiecaper »

dschobel wrote: post #36
jeff18 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that really patronizing. The subtext of your comment is that "people with Aspergers can't help but be douches with a massive ego". On the contrary, I think that many people with Aspergers are quite nice. Autism is not an excuse for publicly "shaming" a Freenode volunteer. From my experience, I think Aspergers can be an excuse for saying irrelevant things like changing the subject to baseball cards in the middl…

You can read whatever subtext and be as offended as you wish. My only purpose was to highlight his well-known issue with Aspergers. You can do with it as you like.

As pointed out below, he doesn't even have a real diagnosis. He hides behind the label to excuse himself from learning appropriate behaviors.

Re: Freenode sucks

#46

Post by bramcohen »

I'd like to clarify a few points around my post.

The reason I posted the log verbatim, me being pissed off and all, is that I wanted to make very clear that I was accurately representing official freenode policy, and that requesting help through support leads nowhere. My gripe is with freenode policy, which is asinine, not with the particular person I spoke to, who was merely being useless and patronizing.

The reason I got pissed wasn't because of the nick loss, which I find mildly annoying, but because channel ops got blown away, causing me to have to deal with this bullshit instead of just giving ops to someone else.

Yes I can be blunt. If you value the superficial affectation of politeness over the essential point of what someone is saying, you can shove it. I don't appreciate people saying that I'm this way because of asperger's, it just causes other people to whine that they're being oppressed because they can't criticize me. The whole line of argument is stupid. People are free to criticize me for not being polite, and I'm free to respond that they're being petty and superficial.

The whole 'it's free so you can't complain' argument is bullshit. There are plenty of free things which are of negative value to society because they suck up or distract resources which could be working on a much better alternative. I've provided lots of support for free stuff myself, both via employees and directly, and never have I claimed that a problem won't be fixed because the person airing a legitimate gripe hasn't gone through arbitrary bureaucratic processes, or that the person complaining should implement it themselves because they're a programmer, or refused to acknowledge that some pain a user experienced through no fault of their own really was unfortunate. And I always prioritize up users who matter and problems which need immediate fixing. That's the way you run things if you actually care about providing a valuable service.

Re: Freenode sucks

#47

Post by [deleted] »

bramcohen wrote: post #46

I'd like to clarify a few points around my post. The reason I posted the log verbatim, me being pissed off and all, is that I wanted to make very clear that I was accurately representing official freenode policy, and that requesting help through support leads nowhere. My gripe is with freenode policy, which is asinine, not with the particular person I spoke to, who was merely being useless and patronizing. The reason…

[deleted]

Re: Freenode sucks

#48

Post by AaronI »

bramcohen wrote: post #46

I'd like to clarify a few points around my post. The reason I posted the log verbatim, me being pissed off and all, is that I wanted to make very clear that I was accurately representing official freenode policy, and that requesting help through support leads nowhere. My gripe is with freenode policy, which is asinine, not with the particular person I spoke to, who was merely being useless and patronizing. The reason…

Your argument that because you're "blunt" entitles you to behave like a 5 year old, is utter bullshit. There is something called tact. If you want people to help you, then perhaps try showing some.

The dude had a lot more patience than support channels on other networks that would have outright banned you for your childish behavior and holier than thou attitude.

Re: Freenode sucks

#49

Post by quxquuxcorge »

sailormoon wrote: post #4
yan wrote: post #2

" and I hope you realize that you just completely pissed off one of the most well known and respected people in the whole open source community" Funny thing about respect, is it takes a while to build up and can be lost in a heartbeat. edit: what's interesting is how respectful the freenode admin was throughout this whole transcript. If anything, kudos to freenode.

While it's true that Cohen acts like a bit of a douche, I think his point is rock solid. 60 days expiration for lack of use is ridiculous. And the admin he spoke to may have stayed polite, but his glib refusal to do anything to solve an obvious problem, while endlessly reciting some BS rules out of some FAQ somewhere as if they were unbreakable laws of physics, is a terribly attitude and reminds me of the most disint…

No way.

He was a complete douche and the admin well has no obligation to help him. If he bent the rules for him this time, because some ass was claiming to be bram cohen, then he's opening himself up for shit and falling for any idiot willing to troll irc groups.

Re: Freenode sucks

#50

Post by codahale »

sailormoon wrote: post #4
yan wrote: post #2

" and I hope you realize that you just completely pissed off one of the most well known and respected people in the whole open source community" Funny thing about respect, is it takes a while to build up and can be lost in a heartbeat. edit: what's interesting is how respectful the freenode admin was throughout this whole transcript. If anything, kudos to freenode.

While it's true that Cohen acts like a bit of a douche, I think his point is rock solid. 60 days expiration for lack of use is ridiculous. And the admin he spoke to may have stayed polite, but his glib refusal to do anything to solve an obvious problem, while endlessly reciting some BS rules out of some FAQ somewhere as if they were unbreakable laws of physics, is a terribly attitude and reminds me of the most disint…

It's true. That is a ridiculous policy.

They should refund him his money.

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