Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

news.ycombinator.com

41–50 of 121 posts

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#41
CSS3 & jQuery. That's it.

HTML, PHP & Mysql are all still quite very relevant.

Replace: [table/tr/td] with [div/ul/li] and substitute the borderless tables with the CSS3 box model and you're TOTALLY up-to-date. No lie.

Right-click > Inspect Element > Console > console.log will get you a long way. Treat the JS console as your new client-side command line. Just start typing in function names, and see what autocompletes. Treat JavaScript functions as if they were executable binaries within a shell window. Use jQuery to traverse the DOM with CSS selectors. This behavior is well-supported in pretty much every current, modern desktop browser.

Everything else is quite honestly a fad, and replete with over-engineering pissing contests. I'd add more opinionated snark to this last part, but that would dilute the important parts of this comment, which I do hope reach you well.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#42
post #16

> But in the little free time I have available > But after work and family, there isn't much time left If you want to ship ASAP with little time investment, IMO nothing beats Meteor. Skills required: HTML, CSS, JS. I've built projects with PHP, Rails, Django, Node, Angular, etc ... and Meteor is the framework I recommend to newcomers. Ok, you're not exactly a newcomer, but clearly you've been disconnected many years…

+1 for meteor highly recommend to start with https://www.discovermeteor.com/

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at Susy for layout, bit more flexible than Bootstrap: https://github.com/oddbird/susy Also for static site generators take a look at: https://middlemanapp.com/ (Ruby) http://gohugo.io/ (Go) https://github.com/getpelican/pelican (Python) When you need to go beyond static sites and take a look at the web frameworks - Ruby on Rails is the obvious one, but I reckon that Meteor ( https://www.meteor.com/ ) coul…

Imo I'd hold off on susy. Bootstrap is a great start for a beginner abs it's used in a ton of environments.

Agreed. Also, avoid every other tool that is potentially 'next-gen' compared to what provides the functionality you need. For someone with the goal of publishing web sites, Bootstrap css and js will get you pretty much all the way. Don't worry about moving beyond them until you actually feel you have to.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#44
I haven't made that journey, and it depends on how complicated the sites you want to "setup" are, but here's my advice as someone doing full stack web development for several years, having started from frameworkless PHP and now preferring the Single Page App (SPA) stack of Flask + SQLAlchemy + flask-restless (REST API framework) + Backbone models + React:

SPAs are only really necessary for certain use-cases, and while having a strict client-server separation does have benefits, it also incurs upfront costs.

You can still get by perfectly well generating HTML server-side with PHP or Perl and MySQL. You may want to check out MariaDB, a fork of MySQL by the original creator if you haven't heard of it. Postgres also finally just added upsert (INSERT ON DUPLICATE ...), which might be the last real barrier to migrating from MySQL, so if you don't have a ton of lingering MySQL-specific knowledge, you might want to start with Postgres, as it seems to be the default in a lot of FOSS situations these days.

There's certainly been lots of innovation in server-side web frameworks and ORMs in PHP and Perl since the 90s. I can't speak to Perl but Slim is a good PHP microframework and Propel is a nice ORM, though there are also more heavy-duty frameworks such as Laravel.

If you don't mind learning a new language, I would recommend Python for any backend web development that doesn't require squeezing out as low response times as possible, which gives you the excellent Flask + SQLAlchemy, or Django if you prefer a little more hand-holding.

You can still use JavaScript to add interactivity without making a SPA. jQuery, Backbone, and React would do that in increasing levels of abstraction.

In the grand scheme of things, the changes to HTML/CSS since the 90s have been relatively small. If you use Bootstrap you might not even have to worry about them too much.

In summary,

- MySQL or Postgres

- Generate HTML server-side starting with a PHP or Python microframework and ORM, upgrade to a batteries-included framework if you discover you need it

- Use Bootstrap

- add interactivity with jQuery or (if you want to learn it) React (React-Bootstrap is nice); switch to full SPA if you discover you need it (in that case you'll probably want react-router, SystemJS, and JSPM)

- use Heroku or equivalent to avoid system administration

- with the combination of cross-browser libraries (jQuery, React) and the latest versions of all the popular browsers having fewer and fewer inconsistencies, you actually don't need to worry too much about how to support multiple browsers unless you want to support really old browsers that only make up a few percent usage share combined.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#45

CSS3 & jQuery. That's it. HTML, PHP & Mysql are all still quite very relevant. Replace: [table/tr/td] with [div/ul/li] and substitute the borderless tables with the CSS3 box model and you're TOTALLY up-to-date. No lie. Right-click > Inspect Element > Console > console.log will get you a long way. Treat the JS console as your new client-side command line. Just start typing in function names, and see what autocompletes…

I'd like to highlight that Wonka has it right (CSS3 & jQuery) and also add that NodeJS is pretty important right now for server-side.

The reasoning here is that the heart of the web is, and has always been, HTML, CSS, JS.

jQuery is a natural choice because it's replaced direct DOM manipulation quite elegantly and is used by 80% of websites. The only thing you're missing is server-side, and Node makes this an easy choice by also being JavaScript.

In short, it's all about JavaScript. If you can code, you'll do well. Keep practicing functions and with Node you can practice command-line apps, or server-side apps as well. Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#46
Two paths you might consider:

1) Focus on HTML/CSS and use a static site solution (github pages + jekyll is hard to beat). When you need more, learn the JS necessary to make it happen, and perhaps move beyond static and into more JS-front-end territory as needed.

2) Tap into your PHP memories and take a look at Laravel and specifically laracasts.com. I'm not proselytizing (I actually don't use php or Laravel), but it's a really solid framework with a vibrant and heterogenous community. It may not where the cool kids are, but it's a great way to be productive and it seems to be constantly improving.

Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#47
As a former Java/Spring developer from the mid-2000s trying to get back into the fold, I think Ruby on Rails is the best bet. It is not the latest and greatest and its a tad slow performance wise but what it lacks in speed it makes up in clarity. Especially on the documentation/tutorial front which makes for a quicker learning experience. I find the most interesting part of RoR is its "curated" (almost Microsoft like) environment where choices are mostly made for you instead of banging your head against the wall making choices about all the different libraries and tools you should use.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#48

As a former Java/Spring developer from the mid-2000s trying to get back into the fold, I think Ruby on Rails is the best bet. It is not the latest and greatest and its a tad slow performance wise but what it lacks in speed it makes up in clarity. Especially on the documentation/tutorial front which makes for a quicker learning experience. I find the most interesting part of RoR is its "curated" (almost Microsoft like…

+1 to this

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#49
Well, let me jump in here too. Just relearn HTML, JavaScript, and CSS = HTML5. I therefore recommend two books:

JavaScript for Web Developers and CSS3 The Missing Manual. Don't overthink this. From this you can move on to frameworks if you feel you need them.

Now, concerning the backend ... well, lots of choices. C# with ASP MVC, Ruby, JavaScript with NodeJS, PHP is still very relevant. Pick what you like, seriously.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#50
I pair program with one of my friends for 4 hours one evening a week every single week for the last couple months. I intend to do this forever. We are incredibly productive, pairing forces you to focus, it is an incredible knowledge sharing mechanism, and we are absolutely steamrolling through things we have to learn and yaks we ought to shave. And it's on the calendar, it's repeatable, we never miss even when neither of us really have the energy to work, something about two peoples combined energy gets us in the zone instantly every single time.
Post reply on HN