Keep doing what you're doing with the frontend. (Although you're free to use modern backends.) The web today is a horrible mess of slow garbage expanding around the content that matters. Forms should POST directly to a URL when submitted, all content should be generated by the backend and served upon a GET request. Javascript should be used for form validation, interactive elements like OpenStreetMaps, but nothing else. Modern CSS is great, but designers abuse heavy features when they lose track of the purpose of a website: to serve content to your eyes and to allow the user to navigate with hyperlinks.
Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?
31–40 of 121 posts
Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?
#32I think you have to try the tools, build things with them, and see what works. I have my own preferences in terms of tooling, but every option has its adherents, and we're not going to agree which framework is best in this thread.
Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?
#33I don't know what any of those things you named are. I ignore all that stuff. The only thing from the '90s that doesn't work anymore is Flash, because I guess Apple blocked it during the mobile revolution and it killed its dominant position. Otherwise, everything applicable from back then still is today. Any time anyone mentions PHP on forums like this, there's always fashion-conscious people who jump in to attack it…
"JavaScript is the same" "What I'm getting at is, I don't know why you need to update anything" Shocking advice. There is a huge amount to learn. Any developer coming from the 1990s needs to re-learn all their technologies or they are going to have a very stressful time delivering anything appealing to users expectations in 2016. "Since the stuff you already know still works, there's not much need to use anything els…
I don't think most people creating websites today have an accurate assessment of "user expectations". Often I'll visit a site that has a gigantic video playing, with some obscure symbols, that doesn't even work on all my devices. Or if I have JS turned off, a blank page.
I'm building things the same way as I did at around 2000, and my creations are just as relevant today. Most of the fancy JS stuff we could do in the '90s. The new stuff is not about basic websites, but how some new additions of HTML5 work. Most websites do not need those though, and if they do, then you learn those specific things.
Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?
#34Keep doing what you're doing with the frontend. (Although you're free to use modern backends.) The web today is a horrible mess of slow garbage expanding around the content that matters. Forms should POST directly to a URL when submitted, all content should be generated by the backend and served upon a GET request. Javascript should be used for form validation, interactive elements like OpenStreetMaps, but nothing el…
"Javascript should be used for form validation, interactive elements like OpenStreetMaps, but nothing else"
Not if you want to get hired. We've moved on from that simple model. I don't like it either but ignoring the fact that things are changing is a good way to end up unemployed.
Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?
#35Check out meteorjs. Javascript has a huge amount of buzz and usage these days, and meteorjs is a fairly simple fully integrated environment that allows you to do just about anything. I don't use it - I have been developing software since the early 90s and I am currently working in RoR. But when I want to play around, it's in meteorjs. In my opinion, too many teams are using an environment that is too complex, ensurin…
Although I do like Meteor, I don't think it's the right choice for the OP. Surely Meteor is easy to grasp, but its fundamentals rely on many technologies (React/Blaze, MongoDB, NodeJS) that a out-of-practice developer may struggle a little.
That being said, I'd recommend the OP to dive into modern CSS frameworks (Bootstrap, Semantic UI, Materialize, to name a few) and learn more JavaScript. After that he will probably feel what he likes/dislikes more and find the most suitable framework for his needs.
Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?
#36Keep doing what you're doing with the frontend. (Although you're free to use modern backends.) The web today is a horrible mess of slow garbage expanding around the content that matters. Forms should POST directly to a URL when submitted, all content should be generated by the backend and served upon a GET request. Javascript should be used for form validation, interactive elements like OpenStreetMaps, but nothing el…
"Javascript should be used for form validation."
Just to be clear and ensure everyone else understands. Javascript should validate input syntax and make decisions that don't need to be forced onto users. As an example, validate a credit-card matches mod 10 and automatically recognize if it's Visa, Mastercard, etc. Nothing drives me nuts like messing up my card-number only to have to go through an entire HTTP request & response cycle to find out.
What we don't want developers to do is ONLY validate client-side lest they open their back-end to injection vulnerabilities like XSS, SQLi, and CMDi or even name your own price vulnerabilities like we saw early on in the ecommerce space.
Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?
#37Wow, there is a lot of awful advice in this thread. HTML, Javascript and CSS are still extremely important and they have come a long way since 1990. Forget everything you knew about them and research their state in 2016. You have a lot to learn, but you'll find all three more powerful and expressive today than they were in 1990. There is currently a big shift in the way clients want their websites to work. In the pas…
> There is an enormous amount of garbage out there right now. Some things to be extremely wary of are NoSQL databases and NodeJs. > Wow, there is a lot of awful advice in this thread.
Sure, but then again:
> Be extremely skeptical of any advice you receive over the internet.
:-D
Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?
#38Keep doing what you're doing with the frontend. (Although you're free to use modern backends.) The web today is a horrible mess of slow garbage expanding around the content that matters. Forms should POST directly to a URL when submitted, all content should be generated by the backend and served upon a GET request. Javascript should be used for form validation, interactive elements like OpenStreetMaps, but nothing el…
"Javascript should be used for form validation, interactive elements like OpenStreetMaps, but nothing else" Not if you want to get hired. We've moved on from that simple model. I don't like it either but ignoring the fact that things are changing is a good way to end up unemployed.
That's true I suppose, since I develop primarily for fun. But promoting this minimal/ideal state of web development can only improve the experience of users. The excitement of using bloated web frameworks might help your startup, but when it seeps into well-designed free software made by the consumer for the consumer, it hurts the product.
Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Completely this. If I teleported here from the 90s, first thing I'd need to wrap my head around is how HTML and CSS have changed. I'd be learning a responsive framework (or even hand-rolling it, so you know how it works) like bootstrap. And doing a very basic website. And if html5 & responsive css aren't enough to wrap your head around at once, I'd create a github account, and start with github pages. That'll let you…
Take a look at Susy for layout, bit more flexible than Bootstrap: https://github.com/oddbird/susy Also for static site generators take a look at: https://middlemanapp.com/ (Ruby) http://gohugo.io/ (Go) https://github.com/getpelican/pelican (Python) When you need to go beyond static sites and take a look at the web frameworks - Ruby on Rails is the obvious one, but I reckon that Meteor ( https://www.meteor.com/ ) coul…
Imo I'd hold off on susy. Bootstrap is a great start for a beginner abs it's used in a ton of environments.
Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?
#40Keep doing what you're doing with the frontend. (Although you're free to use modern backends.) The web today is a horrible mess of slow garbage expanding around the content that matters. Forms should POST directly to a URL when submitted, all content should be generated by the backend and served upon a GET request. Javascript should be used for form validation, interactive elements like OpenStreetMaps, but nothing el…
"Javascript should be used for form validation." Just to be clear and ensure everyone else understands. Javascript should validate input syntax and make decisions that don't need to be forced onto users. As an example, validate a credit-card matches mod 10 and automatically recognize if it's Visa, Mastercard, etc. Nothing drives me nuts like messing up my card-number only to have to go through an entire HTTP request…
Right, actual form validation for security should of course be done on the server to clear up potential confusion.
Form check-pointing is another good example of Javascript use. It has never bothered anyone that a webpage is saving your form on the client or server in the background.