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When Are You Really an Adult?

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Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#191

Post by russnewcomer »

wordbank wrote: post #165
Nimitz14 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

russnewcomer never implied that Russia had a responsible culture. I think you misunderstood his post. For some reason you decided to use his comment as a soapbox to broadcast your own views. Your comment is a non-sequitur (look it up). And by the way, fwiw as somebody with multiple citizenships, including American and Russian, I prefer the Russian attitude. People can have different opinions. ;)

All people are talking to broadcast their views. In this case I just opposed to these statements because I thought he had some utopian views of life there: > It's about when other people become dependent on you. > I think this is the way that it has long been thought of in cultures outside of the post-Enlightenment West. This was my strong opinion after reading Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, (Russia isn't western like the res…

I don't have any utopian view of life in Russia or anywhere. And I was not intending to make a statement about modern Russia or really Russian culture, more about my observations from reading classic Russian literature. I think modern Russia has, like America, a confluence of old and new philosophies that contend with each other, and produce different results different places in culture.

But in my thinking on this subject, at least, there is a difference between dependency and responsibility that I think maybe doesn't come across the best.

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#192

Post by TeMPOraL »

mercer wrote: post #189
TeMPOraL wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yay, thanks :). I'll be recruiting competent guardians for myself then. CVs welcome. Mail is in the profile. ;). Seriously though. Often the part of living with depression is keeping up appearances, so that you don't get labeled by friends and relatives as a childish adult. For some reason, many people tend to switch to a condescending attitude then, and this is very much not helping the depressed person.

This is the reason why I've always gravitated towards friends who were aware of their own weaknesses, open about them, and open to leaning on others for support when they needed it. In practice these were often people who suffered from some kind of disability, mental or physical, or were in some kind of minority (gay, ethnic minority, etc.). They had to swallow their pride, they had to stop pretending that they had a…

A great observation, thanks for sharing!

I noticed something similar about my choice of friends - the people I consider the best as friends, or people in general, are usually those who come from a somewhat broken environment. Not broken enough to seriously damage them, but broken enough that it gave them extra capacity for showing empathy and understanding.

(Ok, with maybe one exception - I used to be friends with a girl who had absolutely perfect, loving family with both parents present, happy and caring. I actually cringe when I think about it, because a family like this seems just... impossible. But it is, and it shaped her to be an extremely positive, caring and empathetic person.)

There's an urban legend / unverified statistic that I hear in my country every now and then - not in media, but from people. It says that about half of the population is actually visiting psychologists, but people are mostly ashamed of telling anyone to avoid being labeled as crazy. My mother also likes to add that "back in communist times, we used to watch Western movies and laugh at Americans for having to spend money on shrinks". Guess what we're all doing right now.

What it teaches me is that everyone is broken in some way. We all have problems, the world is too complex to deal with. Opening up about it instead of trying to boost your ego by laughing at others can let us connect more strongly together, just in the way you described. We're all in this shit together, so why not help each other instead of keeping each other down?

> (btw, I noticed your username popping up quite often in relation to a comment that is, at the very least, thoughtful and interesting. I just wanted to mention that :))

Thanks for the kind words :). I try. I can say for sure that Hacker News has taught me a lot about not just writing insightful things, but thinking insightful thoughts. That's why I love hanging out here :).

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#193

Post by mercer »

beccasanchez wrote: post #43
goodJobWalrus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a woman, I think so. At the minimum, you need to make your own money to be independent, and independence is necessary to be an adult. I can't imagine feeling grown up, and at the same time asking my husband for some money each time I need to buy something. (Financial) dependance infantilizes a person. There is a reason why unemployment is depressing even if you have a roof over your head and food to eat.

So quadriplegics and other people with insoluble medical issues that make their lives dependent on others can never grow up?

I think that's actually a very good question. Intuitively I'd say no, people with clear medical issues and resulting dependency are adults.

But on the other hand, I'm much more inclined to consider that people with psychological issues and resulting dependencies are not always adults. It's purely a feeling, by the way. I can't quite justify it.

I think the crucial part is visibility and understanding. If we can understand the mechanism, or see the disability, it's easier to accept that it's not a choice, and that they do the best they can within their limits. They are as independent as they can be, and really, aren't we all quite dependent in the end? I mean, if society were to collapse I'd probably die pretty quickly as I have no clue how to survive in any kind of 'nature'.

But then, as a disability become less visible, or harder to understand, we have a tendency to not be so lenient.

So at some point on the spectrum we might have Lupus, which (afaik) is understood but not visible. We might sometimes get frustrated at the limitations of someone suffering from this, but we still see them as adults (http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christ...).

Then there's ME, which has for a long time been treated as a psychosomatic issue. It wasn't/isn't well understood and the symptoms appear somewhat randomly and seem to be just 'tiredness'. A family member of mine had this and sometimes I noticed it was difficult for us, the family members, to sympathize and not feel like she was a bit whiny and childish.

And then we have something like depression, personality disorders, or developmental disorders, which very often causes intense frustration, or anger in the surrounding people. I know a few people suffering from ADD, autism, and bipolar disorder, and they get very little sympathy.

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#194

Post by wordbank »

russnewcomer wrote: post #191
wordbank wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All people are talking to broadcast their views. In this case I just opposed to these statements because I thought he had some utopian views of life there: > It's about when other people become dependent on you. > I think this is the way that it has long been thought of in cultures outside of the post-Enlightenment West. This was my strong opinion after reading Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, (Russia isn't western like the res…

I don't have any utopian view of life in Russia or anywhere. And I was not intending to make a statement about modern Russia or really Russian culture, more about my observations from reading classic Russian literature. I think modern Russia has, like America, a confluence of old and new philosophies that contend with each other, and produce different results different places in culture. But in my thinking on this su…

Understood, sorry if I sounded rude then.

I've encountered many stereotypes on this topic from non-Russian russophiles in the last politically-intensive years - that's why I responded hotheadedly.

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#195

Post by vinceguidry »

Yhippa wrote: post #169
vinceguidry wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally have made a lot of decisions oriented around the inevitability of this dynamic. I let friends fall away after they move across town or just otherwise lose the ability to stop seeing me regularly. I've walked away from commitments where I'd lost every single reason why I'd made the commitment in the first place, I don't do this lightly. I've let myself become estranged from family for the sole reason they…

I am so afraid of letting people fall away like you do. I have no idea why. There's something in me that says to keep in touch with everyone. Your way is much more productive.

It's hard to close your life off in a healthy way. You have to think hard about things you probably would rather just not think of. Just yesterday a friend of mine miscommunicated with me, causing me to drive 45 mins in rush hour traffic to wait for him in an empty bar for two hours before I went home.

I was livid. I fired off an angry text when he asked me where I was and he chose to argue rather than apologize. In these kinds of situations you have to decide when, why, and how, and whether to cut them off.

I decided that I would use the same rule for him as I do for my lady friends. Always meet somewhere I know and am comfortable with, never somewhere new. That way if they don't show up it's not a total loss. Also never drive anywhere but home, the coffee shop, or my bar right after work. The better and more flexible and more intelligent boundaries you put up, the more and better people you'll bring into your life.

But it takes fearlessness and guts.

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#196

Post by devonkim »

nether wrote: post #164
intopieces wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but you are still responsible for other people. I couldn't disagree with this any more. I've spent years and years of my life trying to be responsible for other people, trying to make their lives the way I thought they 'should' be -- helping people find jobs, encouraging them to do x/y/z. I'd come into people's lives and it'd be like I walked into an old house: "Let's just fix this here, and that there, and pretty…

This is why charity via direct cash disbursements works. You're trusting that people understand their own situations better than you do, in effect respecting the recipients as adults.

This is very similar to the business and military leadership academic findings across generations that resources and authority should be allocated to those closer to the source of information for greater efficiency and responsiveness as organizations / societies scale. Unfortunately, much of the world seems to believe in a cult of Taylorist management that those that manage and oversee others can best allocate resources because the presumption is that individuals are myopic / too self-important to entrust with potentially catastrophic decisions (this is a false dichotomy even by Taylorist arguments by inductive logic if we now entrust individuals to also be managers with some portion of community resources they manage).

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#197

Post by Umn44 »

tinalumfoil wrote: post #157

> “Chronological age is not a particularly good indicator [of maturity], but it’s something we need to do for practical purposes,” This may be anecdotal, but I've found a very strong association between age and maturity in my life, especially under 25. If you were to do a blind chat with a 10, 15, 20 and 25 year old do you really believe you wouldn't be able to place them accordingly? But maybe this is just my own bi…

"But maybe this is just my own biases deluding me. "

Maturity is defined differently between different people. Also, you are correct. The mind is not as good as we thought:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#198

Post by dennisgorelik »

vinceguidry wrote: post #195
Yhippa wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so afraid of letting people fall away like you do. I have no idea why. There's something in me that says to keep in touch with everyone. Your way is much more productive.

It's hard to close your life off in a healthy way. You have to think hard about things you probably would rather just not think of. Just yesterday a friend of mine miscommunicated with me, causing me to drive 45 mins in rush hour traffic to wait for him in an empty bar for two hours before I went home. I was livid. I fired off an angry text when he asked me where I was and he chose to argue rather than apologize. In…

What was your friend's excuse for not showing up for the meeting he had set up?

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#199

Post by meric »

teekert wrote: post #187
meric wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, human beings tend to be naturally responsible because they tend to feel that way. It is important to nurture these feelings, and take responsibility with those who you feel you ought to, rather than ignoring it. It is important people are aware that these feelings are good and should be nurtured, as opposed to feelings you get when doing something that's harmful to yourself and others (e.g. drugs & chea…

"A certain statement like "You certainly are not responsible for other people.", is misleading and unhelpful because it suggests people who are tempted by relationships outside the home should go ahead and pursue them, even if it means feeling bad for being irresponsible towards your children and family." For me that falls under taking responsibility for my own life. If I were to be constantly tempted it would be a s…

It looks like we more or less agree, and the point of disagreement is the components of love, of which I think there are two: attraction and companionship. It is possible for a 50 year old husband to feel tempted to sleep with an attractive 25 year old who is trying to seduce him, while feeling deep love towards his 50 year old wife, who is now a lot less attractive than when he married her. He can feel tempted to cheat but at the same time feel bad about betraying his wife. Should they divorce? I'd argue in many cases, no.

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#200

Post by anonbanker »

tfgg wrote: post #112
Kapow wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>declared a de jure court What does this mean? Google has no results for that phrase, using any verb tense.

Appears to be a UK "Freeman on the land" [1,2] alternative legal theory. Can't work out much else since it's pretty incoherent. [1] http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1693 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemen_on_the_land

It's extraordinarily rude to associate someone with known terrorists and extremists. especially without proof.
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