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Working fewer hours would make us more productive

theguardian.com

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Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#81

Post by shoo »

robinwarren wrote: post #13

I'd like to believe this article, and in fact strive myself to reduce my working hours one day and have more time for all that other good stuff the article mentions. Shorter weeks could bring a lot of benefits with them to those who can enjoy them. Some problems I have with the article however: 1. Working less may well not result in getting more (or the same amount) done. The article mentions a correlation between sh…

i agree that working less should not always result in getting more done.

one of the potential benefits mentioned by the article is the climate change perspective. from that perspective, the whole point of working less is a mechanism to reduce the rate that stuff gets done.

the downsides of this would be:

1. less stuff gets done 2. on average people have less income 3. on average people have less income, and this hurts poor people far more than wealthy people 4. perhaps the economy doesn't grow, and we don't know how to run society that way

the upsides might be:

5. there's a reduction in negative side effects (both generation of pollution and rate of depletion of non-renewables and unsustainable depletion of renewables (fish stocks, timber, soil, ...)) 6. we've got more time to do stuff that isn't work. hurray! 7. we've got more time to think carefully about what we're doing before we hit some hard limit 8. a lot of stuff that gets done is unhelpful, and now there's less of it 9. it's fairly obvious that we cannot keep growing the physical economy indefinitely, it might be a wise idea to try to learn how to run society in a different way before we're forced into collapse.

e.g. see the book "Prosperity without Growth: Economics for a Finite Planet" by Tim Jackson.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#82

Post by vinceguidry »

I cut my hours down to around 35 a year ago. The reduced stress made me more productive than when I was working 40 hours. If I thought I could get away with chopping it down to 15 hours I would. I don't have a high enough workload to get into flow state most days. Chopping the week down would both make me more productive and allow me to enjoy work even more. But actual tasks don't come in very frequently.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#83

Post by jontayesp »

rodionos wrote: post #76

I signed up for a gym that apparently went on an initiative to improve its employee culture. The gym is really nice, not as good as Equinox in Palo Alto, but close enough. So one of the initiatives was to close the gym during holiday seasons so that staff could enjoy vacations schedules just like everyone else. Lo and behold, they closed the gym between December 20 and January 5th. Just when I was planning to catch u…

We should respect other people's time off if we want others to respect our time off. Is it really so hard to find some other way to exercise for a month?

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#84

Post by amyjess »

Raphmedia wrote: post #79
rodionos wrote: post #76

I signed up for a gym that apparently went on an initiative to improve its employee culture. The gym is really nice, not as good as Equinox in Palo Alto, but close enough. So one of the initiatives was to close the gym during holiday seasons so that staff could enjoy vacations schedules just like everyone else. Lo and behold, they closed the gym between December 20 and January 5th. Just when I was planning to catch u…

Is this sarcasm? My gym AND my favorite bar were closed all holiday. Why would you be at either of those places? You should be enjoying yourself like everyone else during this time.

Maybe GP's idea of enjoying themselves is going to the gym. And my idea of enjoying myself is going to the bar.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#85

Post by [deleted] »

rodionos wrote: post #76

I signed up for a gym that apparently went on an initiative to improve its employee culture. The gym is really nice, not as good as Equinox in Palo Alto, but close enough. So one of the initiatives was to close the gym during holiday seasons so that staff could enjoy vacations schedules just like everyone else. Lo and behold, they closed the gym between December 20 and January 5th. Just when I was planning to catch u…

[deleted]

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#86

Post by vinceguidry »

executesorder66 wrote: post #47
throwaway7767 wrote: post #30

I changed my working arrangement to 80% recently, so now I work four 8-hour day weeks. I wholeheartedly recommend it if you can make it work. I have wednesday off, so the week is divided into two-day stretches. Not sure if I'm any more productive (maybe), but I'm a lot happier. I suspect some coworkers are going to follow my lead, now that the precedent has been set.

How did you manage to arrange that? I can't imagine going to my boss and proposing I spend 20% less time working for the same amount of pay, and getting approval for that.

Can't speak for GP, but what I did was move my schedule up to 9:30-6:00 or so, let my arrival date float between 9:30 and 10:00 so I could come in pretty much when I felt like it.

After awhile my workload dropped practically to zero, and I started leaving at 5. Kept it up even when there was a workload, and found that completion times didn't suffer.

Don't propose anything. Just start shifting your schedule around and see if people complain. Do it slowly and people won't notice, or if they do, won't care.

In the corporate world, you don't ask for permission, only forgiveness. The word they use for it is 'initiative'.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#87

Post by sdfin »

rodionos wrote: post #76

I signed up for a gym that apparently went on an initiative to improve its employee culture. The gym is really nice, not as good as Equinox in Palo Alto, but close enough. So one of the initiatives was to close the gym during holiday seasons so that staff could enjoy vacations schedules just like everyone else. Lo and behold, they closed the gym between December 20 and January 5th. Just when I was planning to catch u…

Working fewer hours != A world that's functioning 80% of time

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#88

Post by jhall1468 »

icebraining wrote: post #48
lmm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to change culture is through law. Look at seatbelt use: decades of public awareness campaigns did nothing, but once it became a legal requirement people switched. Also laws are the way to prevent a race to the bottom. If it's legal to work longer hours people will, and everyone else will do so to compete with them. Compare OHSA, see http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ .

Also laws are the way to prevent a race to the bottom. If it's legal to work longer hours people will, and everyone else will do so to compete with them. Oh, is that why almost everyone earns minimum wage?

Every full-time job is 40 hours, which is the maximum allowed without having to pay overtime.

I think it's fair to assume companies will do anything for increased productivity. That has nothing to do with wages.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#89

Post by jhall1468 »

golergka wrote: post #64
lmm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to change culture is through law. Look at seatbelt use: decades of public awareness campaigns did nothing, but once it became a legal requirement people switched. Also laws are the way to prevent a race to the bottom. If it's legal to work longer hours people will, and everyone else will do so to compete with them. Compare OHSA, see http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ .

> Look at seatbelt use: decades of public awareness campaigns did nothing, but once it became a legal requirement people switched. That's not true. http://web.stanford.edu/~leinav/pubs/RESTAT2003.pdf Page 835. Total average of seatbelt usage, before law: 31%, after law: 48%, in 1998: 65%.

I'm confused. That proves his point. Every state at a secondary enforcement seat belt law before 1998. Every state aside from Maine and South Dakota (both of which had relatively high seat belt usage before the law) saw an increase in seat belt usage post-law.

I think you might be confused by the 1998 number. That year came after the after law percentage. Meaning that enforcement immediately after the law also worked.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#90

Post by eneifert »

I've worked the standard 40-? hr/week programming jobs for years and about a year ago I took on a project where I was the only developer and before I took the job I made the decision to work about 20 hours a week. Turns out that 20 wasn't quite enough so I ended up doing 25-30.

Looking back I think 25-30 hours is about as efficient as I could have been as I gave the best hours of my day. But when it came to the last month before the release I found I did have to give some more time to get it done on time. Short bursts of working long hours seem to be effective for me, but I also noticed that I needed to take some time off after the project.

It's been a great year and I've really enjoyed the other things I was able to do with my time. If you are able it's worth considering even if you take a little less pay.

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