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Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

nytimes.com

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Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#281

Post by nbb »

donatj wrote: post #269
Vendan wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, I personally don't support the draft, but still. What about the legal system? Don't you see there is a problem with forcibly locking a portion of our population away behind bars? After all, that's what the government does, "for your own safety". Do you really feel safe in a country where the government can decide that murder is a "crime" for which you should be inhumanely LOCKED AWAY FOR LIFE? P.S. Extre…

The only justifiable coercion is against coercion. Someone injures you physically or financialy. Forcing someone to do something they don't want to including dieing or giving you their things is coercion. Coercion is always unjust and only fit as a reciprocation for coercion.

Cite?

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#282

Post by sparkzilla »

vidarh wrote: post #138
ars wrote: post #33

The plans have been a disaster. They got rid of the only plan that makes sense for young people: Catastrophic insurance (deductible of over $10,000). The plans that remain have high enough deductibles to be worthless, but low enough to be expensive. The plans helps almost nobody. The only people who gain value from the exchanges are those who get a subsidy. To make things worse insurance companies are pulling out in…

To me as someone living in the UK, this is bizarre. Why would you need an deductables at all for it not to be expensive? This in itself indicates that your entire healthcare sector is entirely dysfunctional. In 2013/2014, the UK National Health Service spent $2928/year per person. This is the average, and includes everything from the costs of births to the costs of expensive heart transplants or cancer treatments. Ge…

You've had a good experience, many others haven't. I personally had two family members die from NHS incompetence, and no compensation. There are horror stories like mine every day. I'd much rather have the US system, with all its flaws.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#283

Post by rdtsc »

aianus wrote: post #275
HarryHirsch wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because socialism works? Just today: change of health insurance. Need primary care physician. Takes six weeks to be seen. Six weeks, to be scheduled for minor surgery. You might choose to waste an hour on the phone to find a less booked-out physician. In Socialist Britain you are guaranteed to be seen within 48 hours! Here in the US the only thing guaranteed is the waste of time. Seems that is a feature of the plan.…

If you're not literally about to die in Canada you're looking at multi-month delays to see any kind of specialist. Meanwhile my friends in SV just whip out their credit cards, pay a small deductible, and get seen immediately. Single payer isn't all sunshine and roses.

I feel though, there are more successful examples of it working than there are examples a deregulated health care market working (which is what is advocated by many -- "why can't it be just like the cell phone market?" -- search for sibling posts around here to find it).

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#284

Post by laurencerowe »

steve19 wrote: post #248
HarryHirsch wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because socialism works? Just today: change of health insurance. Need primary care physician. Takes six weeks to be seen. Six weeks, to be scheduled for minor surgery. You might choose to waste an hour on the phone to find a less booked-out physician. In Socialist Britain you are guaranteed to be seen within 48 hours! Here in the US the only thing guaranteed is the waste of time. Seems that is a feature of the plan.…

I have lived in a number of countries during my career and I have personally experienced two overseas socialist healthcare systems in my life, one third world and first world. In the third world country, I had to have a very niche test that could only be done at the largest hospital in the city, a government owned hospital. It was a terrible experience. The corridors were packed with sick people sitting and waiting o…

> I remember only reading complaints about the UK system until ACA began to be debated, then suddenly it was the benchmark of great healthcare.

Things changed significantly for the better after Labour came to power in 1997 and began to significantly increase the budget for healthcare. I remember long waiting times for non-urgent care as a constant item in the news growing up in the 80's and 90's. With the increased funding it largely ceased to be a problem.

Currently the UK spends about the same as the US on public healthcare (a little under 8%) but gets full universal coverage free at the point of use. Selling your house to pay for healthcare in the UK isn't unheard of (desperate parents taking their kid abroad for experimental cancer treatments) but it's nothing like as common as it is here in the US where medical debts are the commonest cause of personal bankruptcy.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#285

Post by donatj »

nbb wrote: post #281
donatj wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only justifiable coercion is against coercion. Someone injures you physically or financialy. Forcing someone to do something they don't want to including dieing or giving you their things is coercion. Coercion is always unjust and only fit as a reciprocation for coercion.

Cite?

*The Golden Rule. "Treat others as you would like to be treated"

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#286

Post by ubernostrum »

donatj wrote: post #269
Vendan wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, I personally don't support the draft, but still. What about the legal system? Don't you see there is a problem with forcibly locking a portion of our population away behind bars? After all, that's what the government does, "for your own safety". Do you really feel safe in a country where the government can decide that murder is a "crime" for which you should be inhumanely LOCKED AWAY FOR LIFE? P.S. Extre…

The only justifiable coercion is against coercion. Someone injures you physically or financialy. Forcing someone to do something they don't want to including dieing or giving you their things is coercion. Coercion is always unjust and only fit as a reciprocation for coercion.

So you're prepared to invalidate close to 100% of all employment contracts in the US?

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#287

Post by donatj »

ubernostrum wrote: post #286
donatj wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only justifiable coercion is against coercion. Someone injures you physically or financialy. Forcing someone to do something they don't want to including dieing or giving you their things is coercion. Coercion is always unjust and only fit as a reciprocation for coercion.

So you're prepared to invalidate close to 100% of all employment contracts in the US?

Quite the contrary. Those are entered into willfully and not coercively.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#288

Post by stickfigure »

rlanday wrote: post #264
jonnathanson wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's no coincidence that laser eye surgery, teeth whitening, cosmetic surgery is all generally affordable -- markets and competition have formed." This isn't the best example to have chosen. All of these procedures are discretionary and nonessential. If I find the cost of an elective nose job too pricey, I can take my time and shop around. Or I can just go without a nose job altogether and be totally fine. The only…

Most medicine doesn’t happen on an emergency basis. E.g. if you’re diagnosed with cancer, or find out you should get a heart bypass, you have time to shop around for doctors.

And even in the case of emergency care, there's at least the potential that you could prepare in advance by familiarizing yourself with the market. But hospitals won't tell you what anything costs ahead of time, which is practically an invitation to gouge ("just leave your wallet and bank account passwords with the front desk...").

Even auto mechanics are required by law to give you a written estimate.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#289

Post by stickfigure »

howlin wrote: post #273
pbreit wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

howlin: People never or almost never "die in the streets". That's just scary FUD, not reality.

They certainly do in many parts of the world. I personally saw the dead body pickups in India. Seems like the parent aspires an American health care system more similar to the developing world.

Oddly enough, the American health care system is so broken that for many people that would be an improvement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#290

Post by laurencerowe »

graeme wrote: post #85
djeikyb wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Arizona. My employer only offers high deductible health plans with a pre-tax health savings account. So, I pay ~350 USD per month for the plan to cover my wife and I. Then I also contribute to this health savings account, my employer kicks nothing in. For this, we get basic vision and dental completely covered. That is, routine checkups, cleanings, basic prescription eyewear. Everything is else is subject t…

Should I take that to mean that there is no option to get equivalent insurance to what we have in Canada?

In California and a few other states Kaiser Permanente offers an integrated system. I signed up for it as it seemed the least complicated option.
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