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Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

nytimes.com

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Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#201

Post by howlin »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #84
ploxiln wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's not traditionally how health insurance works in the US, but it's how all types of "insurance" should work - it should not be for routine costs. Insurance, generally, should be for unlikely unexpected costs. Otherwise, it's just involving an extra middle-man in payment, and that middle-man is going to make a profit. It's unfortunate that in the US, even for completely routine medical costs, you can't skip…

Yes, it's funny to me how so many educated adults are in this conversation, when the problem is mostly political. On one hand, you have a population that believes that no one should be left to die if they show up at a hospital (probably due to their religion and whatnot). A significant portion of the same population also believes that everyone should stand on their own two legs and that offering healthcare to all via…

> On one hand, you have a population that believes that no one should be left to die if they show up at a hospital (probably due to their religion and whatnot).

No. It's a sign of national pride to have a country where people aren't left to die in the streets. In fact, countries with higher levels of social services such as national healthcare are also more irreligious than the countries where people do in fact die in the streets.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#203

Post by abawany »

djrogers wrote: post #37
pbreit wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you getting subsidized or do you make $85k+? Why only catastrophic?

likely because the incredibly high base deductibles (6k per person for example) on most exchange plans mean that most people will never actually utilize any insurance.

In my case, that was not true. While I had the high deductible bronze plan, I benefited from the insurance-company negotiated rates to still get a savings compared to the providers' billed rates.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#204

Post by pbreit »

bdcravens wrote: post #111
swagv wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pay and get something or pay and get nothing.

If you don't go to the doctor and don't need medicine, the "something" isn't valuable especially if it's more expensive than the "nothing". (I say that as someone with a preexisting condition who is happy to pay my premiums and get the medicine I need; I also grew up in a family where we didn't have insurance but somehow always had cigarettes and cable TV, so I know multiple perspectives)

Are you familiar with the concept of "insurance"? Most people would ascribe value to it.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#205

Post by pbreit »

ploxiln wrote: post #50
djrogers wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

likely because the incredibly high base deductibles (6k per person for example) on most exchange plans mean that most people will never actually utilize any insurance.

Well, that's not traditionally how health insurance works in the US, but it's how all types of "insurance" should work - it should not be for routine costs. Insurance, generally, should be for unlikely unexpected costs. Otherwise, it's just involving an extra middle-man in payment, and that middle-man is going to make a profit. It's unfortunate that in the US, even for completely routine medical costs, you can't skip…

Correct. These days, in the US, at least, it's more of a payment plan with an insurance component than true insurance. I think we've even sort of stopped referring to it as insurance and usually call it "health care" or something.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#206

Post by geomark »

tvanantwerp wrote: post #147

My wife is from Hong Kong, and we're both seriously considering moving back there because of the cost of health care in the US. It's been a constant strain on our finances--any little thing can set us back by hundreds or thousands, even while insured! We never had problems like this back in Hong Kong. I really wanted to make our lives work in the US, but I don't see how we'll ever get ahead when raises and bonuses ge…

Can you summarize the healthcare system in Hong Kong? I'm particularly interested in options for non-citizens. Can you just walk into a private hospital and get treatment for cash? Or is it like so many places in the US where they don't want to talk to you unless you have proof of insurance?

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#207

Post by pbreit »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #84
ploxiln wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's not traditionally how health insurance works in the US, but it's how all types of "insurance" should work - it should not be for routine costs. Insurance, generally, should be for unlikely unexpected costs. Otherwise, it's just involving an extra middle-man in payment, and that middle-man is going to make a profit. It's unfortunate that in the US, even for completely routine medical costs, you can't skip…

Yes, it's funny to me how so many educated adults are in this conversation, when the problem is mostly political. On one hand, you have a population that believes that no one should be left to die if they show up at a hospital (probably due to their religion and whatnot). A significant portion of the same population also believes that everyone should stand on their own two legs and that offering healthcare to all via…

howlin: People never or almost never "die in the streets". That's just scary FUD, not reality.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#208

Post by brandon272 »

Laaw wrote: post #118
mschuster91 wrote: post #110

Every time I see one of these articles (or anything related to US healthcare) and read the comments, I can't help but ask myself how rotten a country can be. In this case, as a German, I dare say "rotten to the core". It apparently is impossible to move the US healthcare system to a system where every person in the US is eligible to even the most expensive emergency healthcare without having to fear bankruptcy afterw…

Yeah, the vast majority of us have healthcare, aren't really sick, and occasionally when we do get really sick, our insurance pays the bills. I had an emergency root canal earlier last year in the US, cost me zero dollars, and I've got one of those high-deductible plans (it's the HSA that covered that). I'm actually a little surprised you (or anyone on HN) are so eager to jump at the "worst case" stories and presume…

> Yeah, the vast majority of us have healthcare, aren't really sick, and occasionally when we do get really sick, our insurance pays the bills.

That's the case in most modern countries. As far as data is concerned, the U.S. performs poorly in many metrics. The risk to individuals in the system compared to other nations is atrocious. The per-capita cost is atrocious. And the actual health outcomes are not spectacular.

I'm biased. As a Canadian I enjoy single-payer universal coverage and the freedom of not having to worry about private insurers and deductibles and copays and premiums and whether or not my doctor or hospital is covered or whether or not my insurer is going to fight me on something when my kid breaks his arm or what the health coverage implications will be if I switch jobs or start a business is totally worth the problems you tend to find in universal systems, in my opinion!

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#209

Post by nickff »

mgkimsal wrote: post #196
Vendan wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't think the role of government is to take care of you, because it isn't the government taking care of you. It's the government coercing others to take care of you, against their will." The government does a lot of coercing people to do things against their will. That's why we have police, court systems, jails, and so on. Heck, we've had drafts! That's literally coercing young men to march headfirst into combat…

Was going to post something like this - you beat me to it. "I don't think the role of government is to protect our country, because it isn't the government protecting our country. It's the government coercing others to protect our country, against their will." Obviously, we have a volunteer force, but haven't always had that - conscription, as you brought up. It's fine to have a volunteer force, until we need more. T…

If you can't convince others to defend your country through rhetoric and compensation, perhaps the country isn't worth defending; your comment implicitly assumes every state is worth sacrificing young lives for.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#210

Post by mgkimsal »

nickff wrote: post #209
mgkimsal wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was going to post something like this - you beat me to it. "I don't think the role of government is to protect our country, because it isn't the government protecting our country. It's the government coercing others to protect our country, against their will." Obviously, we have a volunteer force, but haven't always had that - conscription, as you brought up. It's fine to have a volunteer force, until we need more. T…

If you can't convince others to defend your country through rhetoric and compensation, perhaps the country isn't worth defending; your comment implicitly assumes every state is worth sacrificing young lives for.

> your comment implicitly assumes every state is worth sacrificing young lives for.

no, it assumes those in control of the state believe it is worth sacrificing young lives for.

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