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A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality

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Re: A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Masters actually bought slaves. They weren't cheap. So they had to, you know, feed them and care for them somewhat. Now when you aren't needed at the 7/11 you can almost just go die in a fire: have you seen was homelessness is like in the US? I have.

You do understand that this is basically the argument that slaveowners used to justify continuing slavery in the 19th century?

You know it is a good time to re-think the current economical distribution when the slavery looks like a valid alternative to the status quo.

Re: A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality

#72
post #35
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes - in order to say something that is true, I need to say something that is false. You'd be right to call me on it, and I'd have it no other way.

> in order to say something that is true, I need to say something that is false. What does this mean?

Language can be used in a rigorous, technical way with definitions and as close to accurately as possible. Like in a technical manual or programming language.

Or it can be used in an expressive way, the way that normal people write and talk and communicate, where people say things that are technically inaccurate but express meaning and and allow the listener or reader to understand the position, emotions, facts, thoughts and experiences of the speaker or writer.

For example, "I'm starving, let's get a bite to eat." Do you say "No you aren't, that's technically inaccurate, how dare you minimize the concerns of the starving multitudes across the globe" or do you say "Okay." because you understand what he means? That first response is how the "that's not real slavery!" thread of discussion here looks to the rest of us.

I think what he meant by that was he is communicating in the second, expressive way.

Re: A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality

#73
post #9

PGs articles aren't wrong - but they are second order, when we need a first order response to a current evil [ before it leads to bloody revolution ] If you look at income distribution its a hockey stick - you really have to slap yourself on the face and realise there is no middle class - what you thought of as professional-middle-class-contributor is actually college-debt-burdened-lower-class - no matter how many ye…

> So, just as "All Lives Matter" is not a good response to the "Black Lives Matter" movement, It's tangential, but can you please explain this part? It seems to me that "All Lives Matter" really is the more apt phrase, because it shifts the focus from an us-versus-them conflict to actual justice. Edit: Got it. I'll stop being part of the problem. The only remaining question is this: What's the most effective way to b…

In the US, "Black Lives Matter" was a phrase adopted by a protest movement to draw attention quite specifically to the way black people are treated. Rather than addressing this injustice, the right wing responded by attacking the name of the movement. It was seen as diversionary and insincere, since the suggestion of the phrase "All Lives Matter" was not accompanied by any sincere effort to amend the situation.

Re: A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Masters actually bought slaves. They weren't cheap. So they had to, you know, feed them and care for them somewhat. Now when you aren't needed at the 7/11 you can almost just go die in a fire: have you seen was homelessness is like in the US? I have.

You do understand that this is basically the argument that slaveowners used to justify continuing slavery in the 19th century?

It would be a mistake to say I'm advocating slavery by making this comparison. The slave to a master is just like an automobile: you have to put gas into it to make it go. Turning a human being into something the equivalent of an automobile is an abomination. But I don't really think wage slavery is really all that different at the end of the day. My point is both are abominable.

Re: A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality

#75
> Now: none of the above, and families often consist of two breadwinners (& no children) with a hearty amount of debt, nothing owned, and few savings.

All of this is by choice on the part of the families. People choose to seek employment. People choose to go into debt. People choose to spend rather than save.

> The family unit itself may even be weaker because of less shared ownership.

"The death of the family is the life of the state."[1] When the welfare state grows larger, the family itself becomes less important. If you want to restore the family to its former place, then you must reduce the welfare state.

> Wages haven’t tracked productivity for decades, so wages haven’t risen since the previous story was normal.

How about total benefits, including those mandated by the State? Your wages haven't increased but your employer is spending more than ever on your benefits.

> We’ve lost all of that ground: not just some of it, all of it, and more. We’re back to the 1920s– wage slaves with few rights and no political ability to change things.

We've lost a lot of ground in the quest for liberty, that's for sure. But each June, the Supreme Court creates more "rights" out of thin air. What about those? We have more "rights" than ever, when you look at the burgeoning list of goodies the government doles out.

Income inequality is the result of a free society. Imagine perfectly egalitarian society, in terms of wealth. One day, a musical artist gives a concert, and people voluntarily choose to pay money to see it. Now you have inequality, and it was all voluntary. Should the State jump in and steal the excess capital from the artist and give it back to the patrons to restore equality?

[1] https://mises.org/library/welfare-states-attack-family

Re: A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality

#76
post #56

As a response to PG's article, I posted this: >PG is wrong that he is a creator of economic inequality. Technology development usually brings prices down. This is deflationary; the 'big picture' way that deflation happens: that prices are discovered more efficiently, or resources are used more efficiently, or that idle labor capacity is recruited to fulfill a want or need that was not known before (esp: think uber/ly…

> The nominal wage has increased since the early 70s, but the purchasing power of that nominal wage has gone down faster than the increase. This is policy, not capitalism. Which option would you prefer? (1) You have a 70s real wage, but can only purchase goods and services that were available in the 70s, or (2) You have a 2016 real wage and you can purchase all goods and services available today. Keep in mind that re…

You're presenting a false choice. You could have a 1970 real wage and buy the stuff of today? My point is exactly the fact that we don't have that is a result of inflation. Please explain, mechanistically, why you believe that there are only two options here.

Re: A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality

#77
post #56

As a response to PG's article, I posted this: >PG is wrong that he is a creator of economic inequality. Technology development usually brings prices down. This is deflationary; the 'big picture' way that deflation happens: that prices are discovered more efficiently, or resources are used more efficiently, or that idle labor capacity is recruited to fulfill a want or need that was not known before (esp: think uber/ly…

> The nominal wage has increased since the early 70s, but the purchasing power of that nominal wage has gone down faster than the increase. This is policy, not capitalism. Which option would you prefer? (1) You have a 70s real wage, but can only purchase goods and services that were available in the 70s, or (2) You have a 2016 real wage and you can purchase all goods and services available today. Keep in mind that re…

I'd take options 1 in a heartbeat, my student debt would vanish and my rent in NYC would be almost nothing.

Re: A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality

#78

I think it's useful to draw a bright line around the 'value creation' that PG is referring to, also. It's not just creating chairs, it's aggregating great wealth by 'disrupting' traditional industries. Those traditional industries have workers and shareholders who lose out. What makes successful startups so profitable is they displace a large and less-efficient system with a small, efficient one. Efficient in terms o…

> Piketty's suggested policy response is simple: high taxes on aggregated wealth.

You need to go one step further and outline where and how the federal government should put this new tax revenue to work.

How much should we raise taxes? Which brackets? What form of wealth do we tax? Why taxation rather than issuing bonds?

What percent of gov revenue should we allocate to the DoD? How much to Social Security and Medicare? How much to public schools? Do we continue to subsidize higher education? Will this leave us weak to the threat of foreign attack? Will we have enough left to pay for the increasing number of elderly and obese?

A bad government with no plan, no cohesion, and no foresight will destroy value as the increased tax pool is simply drained out by cronyism, bureaucracy, lobbying, and dead-end projects. The money might be better left to a benevolent dictator, or to the private sector in the hopes of it "trickling down".

It's easy to say "raise taxes". It's hard to say where the new revenue should be invested, by whom, and how.

Re: A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality

#79

"I am a manufacturer of income inequality." Bullshit.

Narcissistic pricks. Not only do you have to be saving the world, but as it turns out, you have to be causing all of the problems as well. You Silicon Valley cunts have managed to begin asphyxiating yourselves from shoving your heads up your own assholes too far. Go read Thomas Sowell[0], and stop wasting everybody's time with your self-righteous publicized ego deaths. — [0]: http://www.worldmag.com/2014/12/thomas_so…

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Re: A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality

#80
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use the term 'slavery' because its descriptive, not because its literally true. I do understand that 711 shift workers don't have their feet cut off if they leave. When I say things like "we need a bit of Socialism right about now" .. I don't mean hardcore enforced-total-equality Socialism, I mean nice Socialism like the kind Bernie Sanders has been raving about.

> I don't mean hardcore enforced-total-equality Socialism, I mean nice Socialism like the kind Bernie Sanders has been raving about. It's taboo to point this out, especially on HN, but I'm feeling bold today: You can't discuss the socialist policies of Western European countries without addressing their wealth. And you can't discuss the current wealth of Western European countries without acknowledging the process by…

Many countries in Western Europe have been destroyed and rebuilt multiple times since the 19th century when slavery was practiced.
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