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Economic Inequality

paulgraham.com

291–300 of 580 posts

Re: Economic Inequality

#291
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. Your quibble over the precise date of the post seems predictive of an inability to deal with the larger points raised.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10822640 Since you used the date to falsely justify an ad hominem—the polar opposite of a "larger point"—it's not a quibble how wrong you got it.

Ad hominem doesn't quite mean what you suggest.

The two postings are directly related and not an attack based on his wearing of red shirts on thursdays.

From the wikipedia """Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning.[3]"""

Re: Economic Inequality

#292

PG is an amazing writer and the wood worker analogy is very smart, but I am just amazed at how biased he is against finance. I do not know a single person who gets in to finance because 'they want to be rich'. Most people go in to finance because it is viewed as a meritocracy where all your coworkers are really smart. I'm disappointed that someone as smart and experienced as PG has not taken the time to understand su…

You don't know a SINGLE person who got into finance because they wanted to be rich? I find that shocking. I work in finance (fintech, but but serving mostly traditional finance) and outside of those working for financial inclusion/wellness, getting or "doing well" seems to pretty much be the universal goal.

Re: Economic Inequality

#293
post #73

"They don't even seem clear whether they want to kill me or not." When someone very influential broadcasts the idea that people who don't like economic inequality (let's arbitrarily call them "liberals") are waiting around to kill the rich for being rich, on the surface that is deniably close to expression of a fear. But it is also preparing a public case for supposedly "pre-emptive" suppression. Which would logicall…

You are deciding whether to violently take away wealth from the rich. It might even be a good idea, but the real manipulation here is to pretend otherwise and get all offended when it's pointed out.

Re: Economic Inequality

#294
I think people tend to overlook a very important factor risk. Majority of people are quick to want to share in the profits of risk takers few would want to share the risks they take. For every Zuckerberg there are hundreds of thousands of people who tried and failed. Unless you are ready to backstop failures what right do you have share in the profits?

Re: Economic Inequality

#295
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is it wrong for a rich person to hoard wealth, or to spend only on luxuries for themselves? Why do they have to "contribute to society"? I'm by no means wealthy, and at my age of 29 I've donated more money than many of my coworkers. And I'm all for a portion of tax dollars supporting the underprivileged. But when I read about Larry Ellison's yacht-racing hobby, I think to myself, "good for him." He can spend his…

> Why do they have to "contribute to society"? This gets to the core of the question! How did a rich startup person get wealthy anyway? They built something that people wanted. People said: "hey, that thing you built, I value it at $20 and you're giving it away at $10, so I'm happy to buy it!" Anyone who made money from business has already created wealth and contributed to society, via the market. To the people who…

They built something that people wanted.

Most startups today aren't really creating brand-new "value" (which is a horribly nebulous term, hence I'll leave it in quotes), but rather taking part in a shifting of existing "value" from place to place, and the VCs who fund them glean some profit out of the process.

And some of the most controversial startups are doing this not by offering genuinely better products or services; they're doing it by offering a similar-quality product or service, but bringing the price down by simply ignoring laws and regulations their competitors are required to abide by.

Re: Economic Inequality

#296
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These sorts of discussions always go downhill because they very quickly turn into defending (and attacking) people as if their identity is inextricably linked to their wealth, which means that policy discussions are read (and sometimes written) as personal attacks. Can we do better than that, please? I don't see a claim that any of these folks are bad people for their money. Gates, for instance, is doing extraordinar…

Empirically, how well do you feel the US government spends its budget currently? There's often an assumption in these discussions that if a billionaire isn't spending their money in a socially optimal way, the government will spend it better. But if you look at how governments actually spend their money, you'll find very little evidence to support that assumption.

FWIW: the government doesn't have to spend more if taxes on wealthy people get higher, you can just have lower taxes on the less wealthy (or increase the no-tax area at the bottom).

Government expenditures stay the same but rich people pay more and poor people pay less.

Re: Economic Inequality

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do they have to "contribute to society"? This gets to the core of the question! How did a rich startup person get wealthy anyway? They built something that people wanted. People said: "hey, that thing you built, I value it at $20 and you're giving it away at $10, so I'm happy to buy it!" Anyone who made money from business has already created wealth and contributed to society, via the market. To the people who…

They built something that people wanted. Most startups today aren't really creating brand-new "value" (which is a horribly nebulous term, hence I'll leave it in quotes), but rather taking part in a shifting of existing "value" from place to place, and the VCs who fund them glean some profit out of the process. And some of the most controversial startups are doing this not by offering genuinely better products or serv…

>but bringing the price down by simply ignoring laws and regulations their competitors are required to abide by.

You're right, in a lot of cases (Taxis vs Uber comes to mind) the government has created these sub-optimal local maximums with its unnecessary regulations and industry protectionism. Technology is the big energy input needed to break free and move to a new maximum.

When I use Uber, I get much more value than I ever did with a taxi. Not only does it cost me less, but it's faster, the experience of ordering is painless, the cars are nicer, the drivers are honest, and there's accountability for bad drivers. Uber is most definitely creating value.

More generally, new ways of doing things displace old ways of doing things. If you're a company doing things the old way, adapt or die. That's progress. In capitalism, the destruction of old business models is as essential as the construction of new ones. They are two sides of the same coin.

Addressing your argument again, lots of the businesses being displaced were basically profiting from regulations that kept out competition. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

As for your general point that the valley isn't really creating much value, remember that all of those wild valuations are just risky speculation by a small few, given that there's no open market for buying and selling shares in these companies. Risky speculation is a valid investment strategy for a portion of your wealth. Beyond all of the hard-to-believe valuations, there's also thousands of small technology companies making small profits and providing real value, but not getting any media attention.

Re: Economic Inequality

#298

Graham is arguing against an enormous straw man. Nobody is suggesting that we “prevent people from getting rich” or “end all economic inequality”. The most extreme proposals I’ve seen in America are ones like, “institute an unconditional basic income as an alternative to means-tested welfare programs,” or “allow every citizen/resident into a single-payer healthcare system,” or “go back to the tax structure of the 195…

> go back to the tax structure of the 1950s–70s”, with higher capital gains taxes Wouldn't it just push capital outside of US?

Just like the 1950s, which we all know were a disastrous time for US industry?

Re: Economic Inequality

#299

Graham is arguing against an enormous straw man. Nobody is suggesting that we “prevent people from getting rich” or “end all economic inequality”. The most extreme proposals I’ve seen in America are ones like, “institute an unconditional basic income as an alternative to means-tested welfare programs,” or “allow every citizen/resident into a single-payer healthcare system,” or “go back to the tax structure of the 195…

You might be arguing against a straw man. I don't think PG was saying "Current, actual proposals will significantly dent inequality".

I think he was saying "People misunderstand the issue. They're concerned by inequality, but think that reducing inequality amounts to the same thing, and inequality is per se bad."

Reading this in combination with other essays, pg is likely worried that a seemingly innocuous change could have an outsize impact on startup formation, precisely because they're so marginal.

Re: Economic Inequality

#300
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those 80 people don't exist in a vacuum. Consider that there are probably tens of thousands of people required to facilitate the profound changes these few people made. This includes people in the food production chain, education (and as such, textbook publishers and paper manufacturers), and product manufacturing. I'm not even including the scientific advancements that made their change possible. So yes, the…

I think the biggest issue is that we are ignoring that a difference of degree is a difference in quality. Once a small number of rich people have more power than almost every one, our society is controlled in a non-representative way - an oligopoly. Imagine if one rich person earned all the money in a country. That would be a very bad situation on many levels from concentration of power, to the induction of universal…

Exit tax already exists:

https://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Expa...

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