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Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

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Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#21

Post by angdis »

hbosch wrote: post #9

In all honesty this writer sounds utterly curmudgeonly. He writes passionately about what "real education" is, dispenses some good ol' Hard Facts About Life, and urges us all to put down those dang computer-devices and just learn ! This is classic finger-pointing, angsty whining. I'm sorry, but the conceit here flagrantly disregards modern reality. Learning is easier now than it's ever been. People don't need to give…

There certainly are more opportunities to learn than ever before, but learning requires effort.

If you want to learn something that _really_ matters you have to give it full attention. That means total focus, not "continuous partial attention", not facebooking on another tab. Whether you use an ipad, a book, or sit across from a table from a professor, learning really does require undivided attention-- when has this ever changed?

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#23

Post by cmiles74 »

marcosdumay wrote: post #7
ColinWright wrote: post #2

From the article: "Hey, you, pay attention! This is important." Say that today and you won't hear anger or shame. You'll hear something like: "Wha...? Oh, sorry sir. My bad. I didn't mean anything." And they don't. They don't mean anything. They are not dissing you; they are not even thinking about you, ... I wonder what students think they are paying for, and what, indeed, they should be paying for.

They are paying for a piece of paper, with their name written on it.

Not just a piece of a paper: a credential. The paper itself is unimportant, they simply need the institution to reliably tell possible employers (the rare few that even bother to check) that the credential was duly earned and appropriately filed.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#24

Post by cholantesh »

lintiness wrote: post #13
cholantesh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably another boring humanities elective of dubious merit, being taught by someone whose adult life has been preoccupied with empty navel-gazing.

this, i think, is what he's addressing. if you don't see value in humanities or the arts, i'm afraid you're completely missing the point of being alive. a world run completely by engineers is no place i want to live.

The point of being alive is being forced to spend exorbitant sums of money for the privilege of being talked down to by someone whose entire life is spent in an ivory tower about a subject whose value s/he can't articulate without resorting to esoteric vagaries?

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#25

Post by cmiles74 »

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #10
ColinWright wrote: post #2

From the article: "Hey, you, pay attention! This is important." Say that today and you won't hear anger or shame. You'll hear something like: "Wha...? Oh, sorry sir. My bad. I didn't mean anything." And they don't. They don't mean anything. They are not dissing you; they are not even thinking about you, ... I wonder what students think they are paying for, and what, indeed, they should be paying for.

The lecture part of college in many cases is the least valuable part of the experience. Adding something to your lecture more meaningful that can be gleamed from the book or the completion of home work is nontrivial, and many schools can't afford the rare talent that and provide research and a strong teaching presence. The students are, and have always even in the "good old days", paying for certification, the networ…

Even in the nineties, most of my lecture courses where simply terrible. I would skim the reading, attend the discussion section and receive a "B".

The classes that had valuable lectures were few and far between. Were I less motivated, I am sure I would have missed them.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#26

Post by cmiles74 »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #12

The main point which hit home for me was that the students are running the asylum now and there is no respect for the professors or faculty attempting to teach them. From the comments: The key to this article is the explicit statement that administrators are aligned with students against faculty. I work at a major university, and my department head has often sided with students without even contacting me to hear my t…

The Atlantic article linked at the top of this piece spends more time on this, which I also think is more important.[0] The tension between the professor who thinks he's having a conversation and the student simply demanding compliance was surprising to me.

[0]: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/the-new-...

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#27

Post by kefka »

fucking_tragedy wrote: post #15
ColinWright wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the massive escalation in fees, and the ubiquity of phones, with instant access to Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and more, do you really think things haven't changed?

The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.

Ok Socrates. Whatever you say.

:-)

Curmudgeonism for over 2500 years and counting.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#28

Post by sevensor »

hbosch wrote: post #9

In all honesty this writer sounds utterly curmudgeonly. He writes passionately about what "real education" is, dispenses some good ol' Hard Facts About Life, and urges us all to put down those dang computer-devices and just learn ! This is classic finger-pointing, angsty whining. I'm sorry, but the conceit here flagrantly disregards modern reality. Learning is easier now than it's ever been. People don't need to give…

This view is a bit too sanguine --- in general we really have lost the ability to engage deeply with printed matter. Those students who continually monitor facebook while doing their assignments are just phoning it in, and the poor quality of their work shows it. Declining academic standards are real. Students aren't getting an education for their money.

But.

The internet is the new Forum. What the students do there isn't inherently valueless. So while declining academic standards are bad news for the academy, they're also not relevant to whether the students are able to participate in their culture and in civic debate. The problem is that, online courses notwithstanding, the humanities generally fail to take online fora seriously enough.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#29

Post by rayiner »

hbosch wrote: post #9

In all honesty this writer sounds utterly curmudgeonly. He writes passionately about what "real education" is, dispenses some good ol' Hard Facts About Life, and urges us all to put down those dang computer-devices and just learn ! This is classic finger-pointing, angsty whining. I'm sorry, but the conceit here flagrantly disregards modern reality. Learning is easier now than it's ever been. People don't need to give…

> Kids today can listen with one ear, read with one eye... Do their research with one tab and chat on Facebook with another.

Can you code with one tab open to Facebook chat? Because the overwhelming consensus here on HN is that coding requires concentration and lack of interruptions. So does learning.

Technology doesn't change the basic biological processes of learning, and the fact is that technology has proven itself to be a fantastic failure as applied to education. Remember the "multi-media in every classroom" shit that failed in the 1990's? Same thing with iPads today. Research even shows that taking notes on a computer doesn't help you retain material as well as writing it on paper. Until we invent neural downlinks Matrix-style, educational technology peaked with the invention of the printed book 500 years ago.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#30

Post by cbd1984 »

lintiness wrote: post #13
cholantesh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably another boring humanities elective of dubious merit, being taught by someone whose adult life has been preoccupied with empty navel-gazing.

this, i think, is what he's addressing. if you don't see value in humanities or the arts, i'm afraid you're completely missing the point of being alive. a world run completely by engineers is no place i want to live.

If you think undergraduate electives are "The Humanities" you're part of the problem you decry.
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