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U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

computerworld.com

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Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#151

Post by tn13 »

ashwinaj wrote: post #98
tn13 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lot of illegal things that happen with H1B that prevent the above. For example H4 spouse can not work but then some company agrees to sponsor H1B under the condition that no payslips will be given and hence you can not transfer the visa. This is same as slavery except that the choice otherwise is to be on H4 which does not let you earn a penny but be a burden.

> "then some company agrees to sponsor H1B under the condition that no payslips will be given and hence you can not transfer the visa" "Some company"? No law abiding company can do what you're saying, let's get real. This is illegal. This is the reason that these fraudulent "staffing" companies exist in the first place since they know the employee will never be a whistle blower and for the love of god I don't underst…

It is illegal but most large companies encourage these small illegal companies that take the legal liability while providing cheap labor. If the small company shuts down does not matter it will come up again with a different name. It does not matter how hard government hits them, there is a legit need they are serving and hence will continue to exist irrespective of law.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#152

Post by secondtimeuse »

ashwinaj wrote: post #147
secondtimeuse wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude you are seriously retarded if you don't realize the discrimination. Here is the article by The Hill that lays out the case and how it affects Indians , Chinese and people from Philippines. http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/immigration/259076-why... http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/5/13/grass-greener-eb...

If I'm retarded, please explain to me how a 7% cap per year on all countries is discriminatory and not fair? Would you propose 50% or 100% going to India? That would be discriminatory to other countries. Stop being emotional and falling for arguments that favor your point of view.

If only you had read that article:

"In 2011, it passed overwhelmingly in the House by 389 to 15."

"Per-country quotas restrict individuals from any single country seeking to come to the U.S. to no more than 7 percent of the green cards available in any category in any year. This restriction favors those from small countries at the expense of those from larger ones. By treating nationality as the relevant factor, India is treated equally with Luxembourg, but Indian immigrants are massively disadvantaged. Equality in theory, inequality in practice. It is a system of expedited processing for people from less populous countries; it is arbitrary and unfair. The large countries that are most disadvantaged — the Philippines, India, China and Mexico — are all non-European nations that, until recently, had little ethnic representation in the U.S.

While the issue is ignored, the lines for visas have stretched to absurd lengths. Adult children of U.S. citizens from Mexico, Philippines, India and China can expect seven- to 21-year waiting periods. Workers from China, India and the Philippines with a college degree or less will have to wait between two and 10 years.

There are no legitimate reasons for this discrimination for any immigrants, but the system is particularly perverse for employment-based immigrants. Arbitrarily delaying hires punishes the American economy, costing us productivity, innovation and competitiveness. "

An argument that was accepted by a significant majority of congressmen but is simply pending due to refusal by immigration hardliners to reach any kind of compromise on undocumented immigration.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#153

Post by latj »

ashwinaj wrote: post #113
x0x0 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iow, you continue to assert without proof that h1b immigration doesn't constrain or reduce wages.

See my EDIT above. I am no economist to parse all this information, but in my experience and people I know the wage argument for "genuine" H1B applicants is hyperbole.

You admit you arent an expert and you dont have time to understand the data. Yet you have already drawn a conclusion.

I am not an expert. I also do not have time to understand the data. That is why all I am comfortable saying is, my gut instinct is that H1B visa's dont drive down salaries (more than adding more workers affects salaries) but I dont know for certain.

The next best thing we can do is look in the literature for someone who has done this analysis. I like scholar.google.com.

If we dont even have time for that, I guess its just not that important and we just go through life not knowing, hopeful that the day will come when we will see a reddit link to a blog post about a behind-paywall news article summarizing an academic analysis.

C'est la vie.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#155

Post by reality_czech »

seibelj wrote: post #40
reality_czech wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain why this was modded down? I think the lack of resources for new graduate students is sad, and it blights the lives of many people in science. There are too few tenure track spots, so many PhDs have to wait until their 40s to have a normal job and salary. People are not willing to question authority or publish negative results because that would slow down the all-consuming struggle to outcompete the ot…

Perhaps the issue isn't that a STEM career is a vow of poverty. I have met many people who are quite wealthy in STEM. I have personally done very well. In America we have become good at identifying talent, and promoting it. And we reward people higher up much more than people lower down the ladder. I'm not going to say whether I think it's good or bad, but it's quite clear the the rich are getting richer, while the r…

"STEM" isn't a single thing (another reason why it's a deceitful term.) The term encompasses a lot of different fields with a lot of different economic situations. For example, you might find it difficult to find a job in nuclear engineering, but easy to find a job in computer engineering. There isn't really a "shortage" of people in almost any math or science related field. Whenever you hear management talk about a personnel shortage, what they really mean is that "we have to pay people more than we think we ought to."

If people want to advance science faster, the way to do it is to divert some of those truckloads of money that are going to blowing up stuff in Iraq and putting it back together, or buying fighter planes that even the air force thinks we don't need. Paying scientists and engineers less (by having more of them competing for the same pool of resources) won't advance science and may even hold it back if it makes the best people go into other fields where they can earn a decent living (like finance of medicine).

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#156

Post by shrewduser »

coliveira wrote: post #114
shrewduser wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you want to be a world beating company you'd better have your talent pool be the world. American tech would be a shell of what it is without foreign labour.

Big fallacy here... The Japanese built a world-class technology industry with local labor. German companies are still best in class using local labor. Israel has a thriving technology industry based on local labor. Why would the US companies be any different from what they are right now? 90%+ of Google/FB/Apple software development is US based. The only real difference is that they would have to pay higher salaries,…

japans tech sector is hardly thriving, are they really your first example? 0% economic growth for 20 years?

Israel is nascent and not very comparable, plus they do pull in a lot of global talent, germany also to a much greater extent than japan.

also, I'm not saying you can't have a 'viable' industry without importing good talent. I'm just saying it won't be as good.

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