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I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

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Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#81

Post by OldSchoolJohnny »

marknutter wrote: post #20
js8 wrote: post #8

I think it's great articles like that get posted here - it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. It's a good reminder of privilege.

> it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. I absolutely would accept those employment conditions if I didn't have any other options and needed to make money to survive. I would also spend my free time learning a skill so I could get a better job at some point in the future. > It's a good reminder of privilege. It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability. In tech more than a…

"It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability."

Oh, you must be very young! :)

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#82

Post by jdavis703 »

kalleboo wrote: post #62
marknutter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. I absolutely would accept those employment conditions if I didn't have any other options and needed to make money to survive. I would also spend my free time learning a skill so I could get a better job at some point in the future. > It's a good reminder of privilege. It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability. In tech more than a…

I'm a pretty proficient programmer, but I would never have gotten there if I had to study after working 12.5 hour shifts all week - I'd still be working in the warehouse today. That's why I recognize I had privilege growing up in a country with paid-for higher education and parents who encouraged me to attend. I also support such social measures for others as I feel it would be economically inefficient if I was still…

A lot of people don't seem to realize that the term "privilege" is simply the opposite of under-privelavged and think the term means they were born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#83

Post by stcredzero »

djtriptych wrote: post #46
rdtsc wrote: post #24

My nephew worked for Amazon in Kentucky and during a snowstorm they refused to let him stay home. He didn't feel it was safe to drive (and it wasn't). They told him he is fired. Someone even called to apologize later, but he already found work some other place. On the "good" part of Amazon at AWS, I had a laughably terrible hiring experience (I know I've told my story multiple times, sorry). They forgot to call me ba…

I want to soften this viewpoint a bit. I had similarly bungled experiences with both Facebook and Google (eventually got offers from both, accepted at Google). Missed phone calls, mistaken identity, inter-office communication problems and more. It's not a fair reflection of the company at large; recruiting is very often a shit show for all kinds of reasons.

recruiting is very often a shit show for all kinds of reasons

I never before experienced the kind of rudeness and incompetence during hiring I had encountered while being interviewed in the Bay Area tech scene. Interviewers not keeping phone appointments. Interviewers blatantly not listening. Interviewers basically (incorrectly) implying that I'm lying. I will observe that the YCombinator companies fared much better than the above, however. Much, much better!

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#84

Post by d23 »

rdtsc wrote: post #79
d23 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I had the privilege of having a basic computer with dialup as a kid. My family moved so I had no friends and was bullied constantly. For this reason, I became obsessed with the computer, learned to program, and ultimately it got me a job. I'm not sure I would describe that as the height of privilege. I spent most of my childhood living in a trailer. Plenty of people I know had access to the same thing (most of t…

> I'm not sure I would describe that as the height of privilege. You probably have a better paying job and more free time than than most people (and as a nice side effect than people who bullied you probably). The privilege mentality is thinking that you made the decision to go into tech consciously because you knew it was going to be hot in 20 years and will end up with a well paying job. But it sounds like you didn…

Maybe we're just misunderstanding what each other means by privilege.

> why can't coal miners just start writing single page apps in React.js over a few weekends, why can't this part time middle aged mom from Walmart who was laid off as an HR person just write Android apps and make more money

Absolutely, I don't think they can. They don't have the free time, and they're worn out after a long day of work. That's not the same thing as privilege though.

> privilege - a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people

My point is that we didn't grow up in some special group that gave us more access than others.

> The privilege mentality is thinking that you made the decision to go into tech consciously because you knew it was going to be hot in 20 years and will end up with a well paying job.

I'm not sure what the "privilege mentality" means (genuinely -- not trying to be salty), but of course I didn't have some master plan to make money in 20 years. I got into computers because they were the most amazing and powerful thing I had ever seen in my life. Does that make me less or more privileged?

I guess my point is: if a person wants to say I got lucky by being interested in something that ended up being world-changing, absolutely, and I recognize that. If a person wants to claim my background is privileged and that's what enabled it all and stake claim to what I have as a result -- well, they don't know anything about me, and there's a good chance they're wrong.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#86

Post by rdtsc »

djtriptych wrote: post #46
rdtsc wrote: post #24

My nephew worked for Amazon in Kentucky and during a snowstorm they refused to let him stay home. He didn't feel it was safe to drive (and it wasn't). They told him he is fired. Someone even called to apologize later, but he already found work some other place. On the "good" part of Amazon at AWS, I had a laughably terrible hiring experience (I know I've told my story multiple times, sorry). They forgot to call me ba…

I want to soften this viewpoint a bit. I had similarly bungled experiences with both Facebook and Google (eventually got offers from both, accepted at Google). Missed phone calls, mistaken identity, inter-office communication problems and more. It's not a fair reflection of the company at large; recruiting is very often a shit show for all kinds of reasons.

Out of 6 companies I talked to over the course of a couple of months, Amazon somehow managed to stand out.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#87

Post by mahyarm »

kalleboo wrote: post #62
marknutter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. I absolutely would accept those employment conditions if I didn't have any other options and needed to make money to survive. I would also spend my free time learning a skill so I could get a better job at some point in the future. > It's a good reminder of privilege. It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability. In tech more than a…

I'm a pretty proficient programmer, but I would never have gotten there if I had to study after working 12.5 hour shifts all week - I'd still be working in the warehouse today. That's why I recognize I had privilege growing up in a country with paid-for higher education and parents who encouraged me to attend. I also support such social measures for others as I feel it would be economically inefficient if I was still…

The amount of 'free time privilege' required to become a developer is less than the amount of 'privilege' required to become almost any other well paying profession.

With software, you need a cheap computer, access to the internet and time to teach yourself. That can cost about $300 and $10/month in many places.

With almost anything else you need all of the above plus a college or other formal education. The barrier to getting any sort of college education, not to mention even getting admitted to one, is far higher. You usually need thousands per month and 20 hours/week of scheduled time to pay for the costs of college.

There are also other minimum wage jobs you can apply for with better conditions, like coffee shops, restaurants, gas stations, retail stores and so on. And in developed countries, you have the option of saving up for your computer with your minimum wage job and then going on welfare.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#88

Post by chrisra »

bluedino wrote: post #35

At the core of operations, Amazon is no different than Walmart.

I'm not sure about warehouse conditions, but from my experience in the home office, this sounds completely untrue. I'm not going back, but there were a ton of friendly people there. They treated interns really well, I think. My coworkers were a really good bunch.
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