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I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

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Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#41

Post by Practicality »

CaptSpify wrote: post #38
Practicality wrote: post #37

When this "job" is replaced by robots, everyone will be better for it. Of course, these people will need to be provided for, and there are several solutions to discuss, but this job screams for automation.

I have no idea what the people in the warehouse do, so forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't this be a prime spot to test out drones? I'm guessing if you are in an enclosed area, the air-space rules that Amazon keeps fighting don't apply?

One of my previous jobs we automated a warehouse using a crane and mini-RVs that drove around a picked up pallets. The whole warehouse only* required a couple of fork truck drivers to load the trucks and that was only because of legal restrictions on loading trucks with an automated conveyor.

* It also required 2-3 just out of high-school "technicians" making about $15/hour who oversaw the whole operation as well as a "maintenance" crew of about 3 people (to repair machines). I think there were a couple of managers thrown in as well. Still, much cheaper than the 100 employees we replaced and I am pretty sure those employees were happier doing something else.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#42

Post by ra1n85 »

geofft wrote: post #34
ra1n85 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's a good reminder of privilege. En vogue Orwellian group think for simple minds. Implying that some have undeserved fortune is reprehensible with this complete disregard for context.

Why stop at implying that some have undeserved fortune? Obviously plenty of people do. A truly meritocratic society would not let the personal circumstances of your biological parents affect (either positively or negatively) your life status, whether by moving to a more expensive part of town with better grade schools, encouraging you to stay in school and helping you with your homework, paying for college, immigrati…

Who will determine where merit is deserved and undeserved? You? The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#43

Post by geofft »

marknutter wrote: post #20
js8 wrote: post #8

I think it's great articles like that get posted here - it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. It's a good reminder of privilege.

> it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. I absolutely would accept those employment conditions if I didn't have any other options and needed to make money to survive. I would also spend my free time learning a skill so I could get a better job at some point in the future. > It's a good reminder of privilege. It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability. In tech more than a…

> It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability. In tech more than any other field, because you don't need a college degree to get a good paying job. You just need to have the desire and ambition to learn.

My takeaway from the fact that you don't need any particular formal education to get a well-paying job is that the tech industry hires and pays people without regard to ability.

Like, the entire reason FizzBuzz has gotten popular is that it's not just possible but common to have the résumé of a senior developer (i.e., to have held all the jobs you'd expect a senior developer candidate to have held and be paid for those jobs, i.e., to have passed multiple tech interviews) and be unable to write it. You can argue about whether "privilege" got these people in the position of being a senior developer candidate, but it certainly wasn't ability.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#44

Post by rdtsc »

lucisferre wrote: post #30
marknutter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. I absolutely would accept those employment conditions if I didn't have any other options and needed to make money to survive. I would also spend my free time learning a skill so I could get a better job at some point in the future. > It's a good reminder of privilege. It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability. In tech more than a…

> free time What makes you think those people have free time after 12.5 hour days and a commute out to the middle of nowhere?

> What makes you think those people have free time after 12.5 hour days and a commute out to the middle of nowhere?

I think that's what the OP called the "privilege". Those that have it, don't see why others can't do the same. It comes from having a completely different world view and priorities. That's why it is common to hear "how come they don't sit down learn to code and become full stack developers, that would be so easy."

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#45

Post by geofft »

ra1n85 wrote: post #42
geofft wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stop at implying that some have undeserved fortune? Obviously plenty of people do. A truly meritocratic society would not let the personal circumstances of your biological parents affect (either positively or negatively) your life status, whether by moving to a more expensive part of town with better grade schools, encouraging you to stay in school and helping you with your homework, paying for college, immigrati…

Who will determine where merit is deserved and undeserved? You? The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

I was assuming that "merit" inherited from parents is undeserved, but yeah, perhaps that's unjustified. Do you have an argument that it is deserved?

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#46

Post by djtriptych »

rdtsc wrote: post #24

My nephew worked for Amazon in Kentucky and during a snowstorm they refused to let him stay home. He didn't feel it was safe to drive (and it wasn't). They told him he is fired. Someone even called to apologize later, but he already found work some other place. On the "good" part of Amazon at AWS, I had a laughably terrible hiring experience (I know I've told my story multiple times, sorry). They forgot to call me ba…

I want to soften this viewpoint a bit. I had similarly bungled experiences with both Facebook and Google (eventually got offers from both, accepted at Google). Missed phone calls, mistaken identity, inter-office communication problems and more.

It's not a fair reflection of the company at large; recruiting is very often a shit show for all kinds of reasons.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#47

Post by ceejayoz »

threatofrain wrote: post #13

It's silly to blame Amazon for what we think is immoral behavior, as if we were going to shame Amazon into decency. Amazon is following the law here. It is the law which is indecent. We must think not about why Amazon is indecent, but rather how Amazon is lawful. In sum, Amazon should be mechanistically compelled into socially harmonious behavior, not shamed into it.

Public shaming of prominent abusive companies is frequently what triggers those changes in law.

I don't see any reason companies should be exempt from criticism for legal-but-immoral actions.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#48

Post by song »

geofft wrote: post #43
marknutter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. I absolutely would accept those employment conditions if I didn't have any other options and needed to make money to survive. I would also spend my free time learning a skill so I could get a better job at some point in the future. > It's a good reminder of privilege. It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability. In tech more than a…

> It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability. In tech more than any other field, because you don't need a college degree to get a good paying job. You just need to have the desire and ambition to learn. My takeaway from the fact that you don't need any particular formal education to get a well-paying job is that the tech industry hires and pays people without regard to ability. Like, the entire reason F…

Well, to be fair, in my experience hiring, I've had far more freshly graduated potential hires that couldn't do the FizzBuzz test than senior devs. So much so that I usually gave something more complex to do than just a simple fizzbuzz like test.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#49

Post by kifler »

djtriptych wrote: post #46
rdtsc wrote: post #24

My nephew worked for Amazon in Kentucky and during a snowstorm they refused to let him stay home. He didn't feel it was safe to drive (and it wasn't). They told him he is fired. Someone even called to apologize later, but he already found work some other place. On the "good" part of Amazon at AWS, I had a laughably terrible hiring experience (I know I've told my story multiple times, sorry). They forgot to call me ba…

I want to soften this viewpoint a bit. I had similarly bungled experiences with both Facebook and Google (eventually got offers from both, accepted at Google). Missed phone calls, mistaken identity, inter-office communication problems and more. It's not a fair reflection of the company at large; recruiting is very often a shit show for all kinds of reasons.

Ditto this experience from Shopify

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#50

Post by moron4hire »

marknutter wrote: post #20
js8 wrote: post #8

I think it's great articles like that get posted here - it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. It's a good reminder of privilege.

> it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. I absolutely would accept those employment conditions if I didn't have any other options and needed to make money to survive. I would also spend my free time learning a skill so I could get a better job at some point in the future. > It's a good reminder of privilege. It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability. In tech more than a…

Hear, hear. I have worked in a warehouse before (part of paying my own way through college). It wasn't that bad, in the grand scheme of things. Hell, I've been treated less as a person at some of my software development jobs.
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