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U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

computerworld.com

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Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#51

Post by ashwinaj »

There are two kinds of H1B petitions:

1. Genuine candidates: I'm going to quote the extreme, people like Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Vinod Khosla etc. came to the US on H1B and there are a lot of other "superstars" on H1B or naturalized citizens. More practically, there are thousands of other talented people from all countries who work on H1B. So the argument that H1B should be done away with is absurd, unless the US doesn't care about staying atop of the technology sector. Also, H1B workers get paid the same as local workers; there is a minimum wage requirement that has to be satisfied by the company applying for the H1B. So if you buy the allegation that wages are being depressed by H1B workers, why don't you take a peek at the bulletin board of your break room (which have H1B applications with salaries posted) or online and lodge a complaint with the state department of labor rather than posting bigoted comments?

2. Candidates hired by "staffing" companies: Blanket applications made by these "staffing" companies which may or may not have actual jobs. These are the applications that need to be stopped/scrutinized by USCIS (they have tightened this during the recession 2008-2010). It's arguable there is a genuine requirement for staffing companies, but these need to be scrutinized thoroughly.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#52

Post by mianos »

adevine wrote: post #12
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of programming jobs don't require rock star programmers.

While this is true, I have found that a developer who can do the following to be very rare: 1. Take a set of requirements, and first identify those reqs for any underspecified elements, or elements where the underlying tech would limit the functionality. 2. Implement the reqs according to the now agreed upon spec 3. Provide adequate documentation and tests for the new implementation. 4. Perhaps most importantly, and…

4 4 and 4. With no requirements, if you have an implementation of what is actually needed and it is not brittle you are all good. People who actually know what they are doing and don't write brittle code are more valuable than rock stars. I have seen too much code by rock stars based on the latest coolest frameworks and it has all been thrown out. Same for people who don't actually have enough skill and 'just' get the job done. One change and it all dies, turns to a pile of steaming poo or gets thrown out, only to be developed again using this week's cool new js framework. Less brittle code is smaller, simpler and involves as much deleting as adding.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#53

Post by nostrademons »

amelius wrote: post #50
heapcity wrote: post #5

People with Engineering / Comp. Sci. Degrees are not in short supply. Exceptional engineers and programmers are. Its almost like the difference between kids who want to play football and the people with talent to make it.

With more and more tools and development philosophies coming available (React, Go, NodeJS, etc.) we need less and less exceptional programmers :)

That's not really true - with more and more tools and development philosophies coming available, we need more and more experienced programmers with the judgment to choose between them and apply them to the problem at hand.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#54

Post by eli_gottlieb »

ones_and_zeros wrote: post #27
npalli wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For CS graduates, I see the 2014 Salary as $62,103 and the 2015 Salary as $65,004. Which is actually a 6% increase. The 2014 was a 6% increase over 2013. So more than 10% increase in two years. What are you seeing?

I'm comparing computer science majors, which is the majority (80% in 2015) of those in the computer science category. I think this removes outliers like someone getting a bachelors in computer science with a major in financial engineering at Cornell making 200k on Wall Street after graduation. 2014 67,500. 2015 65,004. Down about 3.7%, which adds up over time. Either way, from my point of view, the software "professi…

Market prices for anything are a random walk in the short-term. Let's look at some longer trends if we want to draw sound conclusions.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#55

Post by yen223 »

ones_and_zeros wrote: post #28
Cookingboy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement is ridiculous. I'm not going to discuss the demand for accountants and cab drivers or the differences between engineering job and cab driver, but your assumption of there are plenty of exceptional accountants in India and exceptional cab drivers in Europe is unfounded. Why would Indian accountants be experts with U.S. accounting practices and tax laws? Would they be amazing at dealing with customers an…

If good engineers from China and India (or really anywhere) are just as good at their subject as anyone else then preference should be given to the citizen, but it's actually the reverse in practice, and that is by design. If the foreign engineers are really that good then why do most of them do low level work with low status positions for 70k/year? Sounds like poor use of the "best and brightest" to me...

A lot of foreign workers are willing to work for less money, in exchange for a H1-B visa.

Why are they willing to do that? Because H1-Bs are scarce.

Why is it scarce? Because a lot of Americans have decided that H1-Bs should be limited, because they fear foreign workers coming over and working for less money.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#56

Post by fiatmoney »

ashwinaj wrote: post #51

There are two kinds of H1B petitions: 1. Genuine candidates: I'm going to quote the extreme, people like Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Vinod Khosla etc. came to the US on H1B and there are a lot of other "superstars" on H1B or naturalized citizens. More practically, there are thousands of other talented people from all countries who work on H1B. So the argument that H1B should be done away with is absurd, unless the…

There is a separate "superstar" visa. The O-1 visa is available to "individuals with an extraordinary ability in the sciences, education, business, or athletics".

The claimed point of H1B is to benefit Americans and the American economy by filling positions which have a temporary shortage, in a way that does not drive down wages. Of course that's not even close to how it works in practice.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#57

Post by pekk »

ashwinaj wrote: post #51

There are two kinds of H1B petitions: 1. Genuine candidates: I'm going to quote the extreme, people like Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Vinod Khosla etc. came to the US on H1B and there are a lot of other "superstars" on H1B or naturalized citizens. More practically, there are thousands of other talented people from all countries who work on H1B. So the argument that H1B should be done away with is absurd, unless the…

You seem to think that everyone hired by a company rather than a staffing agency under H1B is in category 1, but it isn't so. I won't bother to name names

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#58

Post by protomyth »

ashwinaj wrote: post #51

There are two kinds of H1B petitions: 1. Genuine candidates: I'm going to quote the extreme, people like Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Vinod Khosla etc. came to the US on H1B and there are a lot of other "superstars" on H1B or naturalized citizens. More practically, there are thousands of other talented people from all countries who work on H1B. So the argument that H1B should be done away with is absurd, unless the…

The bill proposed in the last paragraph would take a pretty big hammer to #2. I doubt it will actually pass (or even be voted on), but I think I will watch it to see what actually happens and who does what.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#59

Post by eli_gottlieb »

m52go wrote: post #22
coliveira wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should understand that your logic can be used to prove that any profession is in short supply. Exceptional accountants are in short supply, so we should hire them in droves from India. Exceptional cab drivers are in short supply too, so we should have a visa waiver to bring them from Europe...

Exceptional people in any profession are in short supply. Isn't that a true statement? Whether that justifies hiring internationally and issuing visa waivers, I'm not sure, but good people sure are hard to find regardless of industry.

>Exceptional people in any profession are in short supply. Isn't that a true statement?

It equivocates on whether by "exceptional" and "short" we mean absolute standards or relative ones. If we use relative terms, "exceptional" (say, the top 1%) people are by definition in short (only 1% of the total) supply.

Of course, 1% of a large population can still be quite substantial.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#60

Post by nickbauman »

ashwinaj wrote: post #51

There are two kinds of H1B petitions: 1. Genuine candidates: I'm going to quote the extreme, people like Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Vinod Khosla etc. came to the US on H1B and there are a lot of other "superstars" on H1B or naturalized citizens. More practically, there are thousands of other talented people from all countries who work on H1B. So the argument that H1B should be done away with is absurd, unless the…

I still believe it's a wage suppression strategy. Here's why: I used to work for a major multinational based in Europe, but I lived here in the US. Many of the people I worked with were not US citizens, but lived and worked here on an E-1 (the European version of the H-1b Visa). They were essentially captive workers who were at the mercy of the whims of management; management that was largely absent from the day-to-day realities of how things worked in the US. I couldn't prove it completely but based on the compensation rates of a few I knew, I also felt certain they were almost categorically paid below market.
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