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2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

arstechnica.com

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Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#141

Post by at-fates-hands »

Silhouette wrote: post #89
sz4kerto wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just got closer to the other leading operating systems (iOS and Android). They claim that they need telemetry, which I find reasonable from a technical standpoint. The lack of opt-out is annoying, however, given Microsoft's bad public image I think people would opt out in masses if they provided this option. So I don't think the data they send back is 'spyware' in the sense that they want to know more about you an…

So I don't think the data they send back is 'spyware' in the sense that they want to know more about you and then sell it or use it to sell other stuff to you. Unfortunately, given that the other sting in Windows 10 is automatic, compulsory updates, even if your hypothesis is true today there is no guarantee it will remain true tomorrow. I'm a little sad about the whole Windows 10 situation, really. From the more cre…

>> If I can't turn things off reliably on my own computer if I don't want them to happen, and I can't trust that questionable things will be opt-in instead of opt-out

It seems to me MS is simply going to the "let us take care of your system, we know what's best for you" approach - which is not only insulting, but highly suspect.

When you make using an OS compulsory on several fronts (many of which I can't control), I really have to ask myself if I should try making a move to a more open, more secure OS.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#142

Post by serge2k »

burntcookie90 wrote: post #83
sz4kerto wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are an outlier. For 99% of the users (not an accurate figure, of course) using Android without the Play Store is not viable.

Using Google's android is not, but you could get amazon, or whatever. It's part of the ecosystem, if you buy into Amazon's you get their store, if you buy into Google's you get their's. If you want neither, you have to figure that out, or a new company needs to handle that situation.

A huge part of the value for users is the google ecosystem.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#143

Post by doctorpangloss »

gtirloni wrote: post #130
frik wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All can be turned off in Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) - it's very expensive and not sold to consumer nor small business at all. But think about your doctor, your lawyer, etc. many smaller business, cheaper Windows 10 editon (non LTSB) they will unintentionally leak your confidential personal data. You say such PCs shouldn't be online at all? But they are and many of them run on Windows. Sca…

they will unintentionally leak your confidential personal data How?

You're a defendant in a trial against the government. You open an Explorer window that tries to render a preview for a PDF document titled "Doug Malone's Testimony." The PDF is busted and the preview renderer errors out, posting the error message with the file name automatically to Microsoft. The government subpoenas your Microsoft account, trolls the error reports and learns your legal strategy.

It didn't matter if the file was on your super duper secret encrypted drive. It doesn't even matter if it's in the file name; maybe the preview code dumps the whole file contents in the error report. Maybe the preview code is buggy and just logs file names. The report is cached until you're next connected to the Internet and delivered as part of "routine diagnostics."

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#144

Post by yuhong »

lstamour wrote: post #97
criddell wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked at the Microsoft store for an Enterprise edition of Windows and they told me it's not sold to consumers (they tried to tell me I want Windows 10 Professional). I'm not a student or a teacher, so I don't think I can buy the education edition either.

You need 250+ users for Software Assurance through Enterprise Licensing programs: http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/F/5/1F5357DD-F7C8-4... However, through the MOSP (for 5-250, now called "Microsoft Online Services"), you can get Windows Intune with Software Assurance for Windows for $11/user (at least when it was announced), which includes Software Assurance, which then includes a copy of Windows 10 Enterpris…

You can buy Win10 Enterprise with Software Assurance through Open Licence just fine too (and even the renewal isn't that expensive). More precisely, what it gains you is access to the "Security" telemetry level.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#145

Post by yuhong »

blakeyrat wrote: post #138
frik wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All can be turned off in Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) - it's very expensive and not sold to consumer nor small business at all. But think about your doctor, your lawyer, etc. many smaller business, cheaper Windows 10 editon (non LTSB) they will unintentionally leak your confidential personal data. You say such PCs shouldn't be online at all? But they are and many of them run on Windows. Sca…

> But think about your doctor, your lawyer, etc. many smaller business, cheaper Windows 10 editon (non LTSB) they will unintentionally leak your confidential personal data. Are they more likely to than if they were using Windows 7? Or OS X, for that matter? You make it sound as if Microsoft's software is actively trying to steal personal information, instead of just sending boring shit like "what error code did that…

There is a good article on the difference between different telemetry levels here: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85...

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#146

Post by yuhong »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #141
Silhouette wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I don't think the data they send back is 'spyware' in the sense that they want to know more about you and then sell it or use it to sell other stuff to you. Unfortunately, given that the other sting in Windows 10 is automatic, compulsory updates, even if your hypothesis is true today there is no guarantee it will remain true tomorrow. I'm a little sad about the whole Windows 10 situation, really. From the more cre…

>> If I can't turn things off reliably on my own computer if I don't want them to happen, and I can't trust that questionable things will be opt-in instead of opt-out It seems to me MS is simply going to the "let us take care of your system, we know what's best for you" approach - which is not only insulting, but highly suspect. When you make using an OS compulsory on several fronts (many of which I can't control), I…

Yea, I think it is called "Windows as a service".

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#147

Post by yuhong »

criddell wrote: post #84
sz4kerto wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just got closer to the other leading operating systems (iOS and Android). They claim that they need telemetry, which I find reasonable from a technical standpoint. The lack of opt-out is annoying, however, given Microsoft's bad public image I think people would opt out in masses if they provided this option. So I don't think the data they send back is 'spyware' in the sense that they want to know more about you an…

They need all that information for things like Cortana to do it's magic. For those of us that don't need or want Cortana (or Siri or OK Google) on the desktop, they shouldn't need my data. Telemetry after a crash or with regards to OS function usage seems OK to me, but I don't want my calendar, phone book, or email sent to the cloud for analysis. I don't see how small medical offices can use Windows anymore (big ones…

I recommend that you read this: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85...

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#148

Post by yuhong »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #143
gtirloni wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they will unintentionally leak your confidential personal data How?

You're a defendant in a trial against the government. You open an Explorer window that tries to render a preview for a PDF document titled "Doug Malone's Testimony." The PDF is busted and the preview renderer errors out, posting the error message with the file name automatically to Microsoft. The government subpoenas your Microsoft account, trolls the error reports and learns your legal strategy. It didn't matter if…

Note that error reporting in Windows has been there since XP though.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#149

Post by reality_czech »

I hope Ars Technica got paid well for this P.R. piece.

I don't see why anyone would give Microsoft the "benefit of the doubt" since they are probably the most consumer-hostile of the big tech companies (even Google is merely indifferent, not actually hostile.) The Win10 spyware, the always-on Xbone camera, the (later reversed) decision to ban used games on XBone, the list goes on...

On the other hand, I trust that HoloLens will be around for a while since it is a vanity project for them and they have literally billions of dollars to burn on it. Similar to Google Glass and Facebook's virtual reality thing that they acquired.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#150

Post by Silhouette »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #141
Silhouette wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I don't think the data they send back is 'spyware' in the sense that they want to know more about you and then sell it or use it to sell other stuff to you. Unfortunately, given that the other sting in Windows 10 is automatic, compulsory updates, even if your hypothesis is true today there is no guarantee it will remain true tomorrow. I'm a little sad about the whole Windows 10 situation, really. From the more cre…

>> If I can't turn things off reliably on my own computer if I don't want them to happen, and I can't trust that questionable things will be opt-in instead of opt-out It seems to me MS is simply going to the "let us take care of your system, we know what's best for you" approach - which is not only insulting, but highly suspect. When you make using an OS compulsory on several fronts (many of which I can't control), I…

In the case of updates, I wouldn't mind so much if they had them on-by-default for security and stability updates, because that will usually be the best choice for users who don't know any better. However, preventing power users and small businesses from controlling their own systems even if they want to is quite a different thing, and of course it makes a difference only if Microsoft want you to have something that you actively do not want.
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