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At Theranos, Many Strategies and Snags

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Re: At Theranos, Many Strategies and Snags

#21

Post by in_cahoots »

jere wrote: post #19
randycupertino wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glassdoor actually removed a few of the more scathing negative reviews about working there. I think Theranos advertised on Glassdoor so they removed some of the even worse reviews... there used to be some even more negative ones.

So I was on Glassdoor just yesterday and saw a little note "Your trust is our top concern, so companies can't alter or remove reviews." Is that just a flat out lie?

It's not a lie but it's not necessarily the whole truth. Companies can't alter reviews, but Glassdoor definitely can and does. We just don't know what criteria they use.

Re: At Theranos, Many Strategies and Snags

#22

Post by brandon272 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #18
brandon272 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the blood become contaminated?

For one thing, it's almost impossible to get your skin perfectly clean. Any test that uses a single drop of blood will be very sensitive to even the slightest amount of soil or contamination on the fingertip where the drop is extracted.

Couldn't this be alleviated with a finger prick method that prevents the droplet from sitting on the surface of the skin before it is collected? (i.e. a tiny needle that reaches below the epidermis to extract a drop of blood)

Re: At Theranos, Many Strategies and Snags

#23

Post by trevyn »

Mithaldu wrote: post #4

I'm honestly getting kind of annoyed with seeing stuff about Theranos, since everyone writing about them is beating about the bush, and only ends up describing how Theranos communicates with a startling lack of earnestness. Example from the video, paraphrased: Mod: "What prick tests are you able to do, using no commercially available lab equipment?" Holmes: "[lots of waffling] We're currently only doing the Herpes te…

Huh? Sounds like she did answer the question -- only Herpes.

Re: At Theranos, Many Strategies and Snags

#24

Post by pbreit »

MathsOX wrote: post #15

Many in SV find it hard to grapple with traditional startups not penetrating health care to a greater degree; in Rise of the Robots (one of the Financial Times and The Economist books of the year) it's lamented for an entire chapter. Traditionally the level of fundamental research and development displayed by Theranos - in areas of health or national defence - are done for years behind closed doors and then slowly ro…

It's seems like there has been enough deception of investors, employees, partners and customers over the 12 years with little/nothing to show that "fraudulent" is probably the correct word.

Re: At Theranos, Many Strategies and Snags

#25

Post by CamperBob2 »

geomark wrote: post #9

I like how Holmes' recollection of meetings is always different than the other attendees. Only one machine had an error message, not all three. She didn't abruptly walk out of the meeting. She didn't refuse to answer a question due to "trade secrets". And so on.

Every article I read about this company sounds like a recap of Rashomon. No two participants ever describe the same events.

Re: At Theranos, Many Strategies and Snags

#26

Post by in_cahoots »

Mithaldu wrote: post #4

I'm honestly getting kind of annoyed with seeing stuff about Theranos, since everyone writing about them is beating about the bush, and only ends up describing how Theranos communicates with a startling lack of earnestness. Example from the video, paraphrased: Mod: "What prick tests are you able to do, using no commercially available lab equipment?" Holmes: "[lots of waffling] We're currently only doing the Herpes te…

The media was caught off-guard after years of writing puff pieces, and it's only now that they are doing any investigative journalism. The only thing they have to go off of right now are hype-filled interviews, sources, and he-said / she-said conversations.

I'm sure the major newspapers are all preparing full investigative pieces, but those take time. In the meantime we'll get articles full of circumstantial evidence and insinuations.

Re: At Theranos, Many Strategies and Snags

#27

Post by krmboya »

ThomPete wrote: post #7

No matter how this story ends (whether they eventually ends up with having a fully functioning product or not) this should be a cautionary tale to anyone wanting to actually change the world in healthcare. Science speaks for itself and does not care how much you raised at what valuation. It requires a rigorous approach to testings and facts and data or it will be merciless if you aren't living up to your own claims.…

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman

Re: At Theranos, Many Strategies and Snags

#28

Post by Zigurd »

ThomPete wrote: post #7

No matter how this story ends (whether they eventually ends up with having a fully functioning product or not) this should be a cautionary tale to anyone wanting to actually change the world in healthcare. Science speaks for itself and does not care how much you raised at what valuation. It requires a rigorous approach to testings and facts and data or it will be merciless if you aren't living up to your own claims.…

Well that's all very moral, but what Theranos is doing is mostly engineering. So while "hype the fuck out of it, raise big money, and fake it 'till you make it" might feel all icky, it's not a unique plan.

Will we be saying the same things about Palantir? Maybe, maybe not. There's not that much difference between Palantir and Theranos. What has Palantir got that others don't? Answer: The ability to raise money at incredible valuations. Both are living off a mythologized ("PayPal has great fraud detection" and "you don't need an incompetent phlebotomist poking holes in your arm") advantage. We'll see if they can turn all that money into a real advantage.

But you can't count on science to spank these people.

Re: At Theranos, Many Strategies and Snags

#29

Post by MathsOX »

apalmer wrote: post #20
MathsOX wrote: post #15

Many in SV find it hard to grapple with traditional startups not penetrating health care to a greater degree; in Rise of the Robots (one of the Financial Times and The Economist books of the year) it's lamented for an entire chapter. Traditionally the level of fundamental research and development displayed by Theranos - in areas of health or national defence - are done for years behind closed doors and then slowly ro…

Thing is, the approach your describing is fundamental dishonest... Leading investors to believe that you have technology that will be ready in 2011 when in reality you expect it to be ready in 2016 is not flipping a start up business model... It's just lying to get investor money

The latter half of that paragraph is articulating what I think Theranos is currently doing, not what I think they should have done.

What I said they should have done is described to their investors the business model that would act as a stop gap measure (gain market share and revenues by using existing technology) while allowing them to develop their proprietary technology to a point where it can get regulatory approval and can replace the already existing tech they're currently using.

> Leading investors to believe that you have technology that will be ready in 2011 when in reality you expect it to be ready in 2016 is not flipping a start up business model... It's just lying to get investor money

I've not seen any indication that rounds were predicated on certain delivery dates of the tech (what tech? what is the "success" percent? can the tech be augmented with more traditional tools?). If terms did get that specific, then there would be grounds for potential fraud.

Re: At Theranos, Many Strategies and Snags

#30

Post by WalterSear »

apalmer wrote: post #20
MathsOX wrote: post #15

Many in SV find it hard to grapple with traditional startups not penetrating health care to a greater degree; in Rise of the Robots (one of the Financial Times and The Economist books of the year) it's lamented for an entire chapter. Traditionally the level of fundamental research and development displayed by Theranos - in areas of health or national defence - are done for years behind closed doors and then slowly ro…

Thing is, the approach your describing is fundamental dishonest... Leading investors to believe that you have technology that will be ready in 2011 when in reality you expect it to be ready in 2016 is not flipping a start up business model... It's just lying to get investor money

The strategies being played by Theranos's executive don't look like Silicon Valley, IMHO. They look like outsiders cargo-culting the startup process: outside-looking-in Silicon Valley.
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