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Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

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Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#151

Post by leereeves »

petke wrote: post #142
quadrangle wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Facebook is rich enough and powerful enough to MAKE the choice be full-internet or nothing. They and other powerful entities can provide full internet. It is THEIR fault that the choice is FaceBook or nothing because they want that to be the choice. FaceBook is not some savior here. The ramifications of pushing everyone to FB are also devastating because they would force everyone to get locked in to using F…

I think you are not hearing the point. Given that Facebook is a greedy company (and not a charity), its not going to give away free full internet. So our choice is about allowing, or not allowing, a billion poor people free Facebook access. Its easy for us to say this is no good and it should be stopped because Facebook access is not as good as the full internet. But who are we to deny poor people what little they ca…

It won't be a billion poor people getting free Facebook access.

Indians who can afford smartphones and electricity, but not a basic data plan (how many?), will be getting Facebook access at the price of being subjected to advertising, tracking, etc.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#152

Post by aangjie »

petke wrote: post #70
erbdex wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a screenshot of what's the permanent top-notification if you're an Indian and on Facebook- http://imgur.com/uykRY8G

I agree Facebook is doing this for their own greedy reasons, but they make one very good point: "Banning free basics on the basis of net neutrality [...] means 1 billion people cant afford to access any services." It isn't a choice between having facebook, or having the full internet. Its a choice between having facebook, or having no internet at all. Surely no internet at all, is the worst option. Nobody else is goi…

Internet is not a panacea, or all good solution. Sometimes restricted internet, (especially when it's restricted by someone, who has no stake/skin-in-the-game for your growth) can do more harm than no internet. You're not recognizing the risk* of habit-forming facebook addiction to the poor.

* -- Perhaps you could try tracking your time and see how much of it you spend on facebook. I recommend rescuetime.com

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#153

Post by [deleted] »

discardorama wrote: post #17
sremani wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let us not judge from Intellectual Ivory towers, the facts on the ground are 80% of Indians do not have internet access. You sometimes have to try "impure" methods. The question is still up in the air, whether FB Basics is gateway to full internet or if it is a walled garden. Either way, it is better than No Access. The immediate retort I get is, why not facebook provide free internet access to poor. Guys, is it thei…

> Let us not judge from Intellectual Ivory towers, Labeling someone who disagrees with you as being in an "ivory tower" is basically an ad-hominem. Argue the merits, not the source. > the facts on the ground are 80% of Indians do not have internet access. You sometimes have to try "impure" methods. The question is still up in the air, whether FB Basics is gateway to full internet or if it is a walled garden. Either w…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#154

Post by wildmusings »

rsync wrote: post #126

The real question is, will facebook lobby against, and attempt to disallow, free community / coop network access ? It's one thing to trick a bunch of poor people into thinking you're giving them free Internet access ... it's still free. It's quite another to then shackle them by manipulating their legal system into disallowing any other free options. I have a lot on my plate right now, but it sure would be interestin…

Hundreds of millions of people in India don't even have access to electricity, let alone internet. The Indian government is extremely corrupt and over-regulating. They have failed to bring modernity to a billion people. That's the context here. From what I can tell, Free Basics is a market solution that will allow a bunch of self-interested parties to bring connectivity to people who would probably never get it otherwise.

If there are all of these other alternatives, why doesn't someone set them up as a competitor to Free Basics. No one would use a limited service like Free Basics if they had free access to "real" internet access.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#155

Post by brianwawok »

prostoalex wrote: post #119
firasd wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re fine with the idea that every time you load news​.ycombi​na​tor​.com your ISP charges you $0.10 extra, but if you load TMZ​.com it’s free? That would not be “the internet” in my books, and I’m glad that across the world, from Obama & the FCC to India, people are standing steadfast to endorse net neutrality. As for why there’s no turning back: for most of the internet’s history we’ve had ‘de facto’ net neutr…

> That would not be “the internet” in my books Which is why you are free to take your business to another ISP that does no such shenanigans.

Well, in the US at least not many rural people (and some city people) do not have access to multiple ISPs. I have comcast up to 120 mbps, or att for 6mbps. So I need to sell my house if I want to drop comcast.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#156

Post by wildmusings »

If there are alternative ways to bring internet access to the billion unconnected Indians, then why does the Indian government need to ban Free Basics? Those alternatives can be set up in parallel. No one will use Free Basics if the alternative is free "real" internet access.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#157

Post by test001only »

golergka wrote: post #114
discardorama wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let us not judge from Intellectual Ivory towers, Labeling someone who disagrees with you as being in an "ivory tower" is basically an ad-hominem. Argue the merits, not the source. > the facts on the ground are 80% of Indians do not have internet access. You sometimes have to try "impure" methods. The question is still up in the air, whether FB Basics is gateway to full internet or if it is a walled garden. Either w…

> What if a pharma company came and said, "you know, this medicine causes birth defects, but it's OK to push it on Indians because 80% lack decent medication"... would you be for it? If you replace "birth defects" (which imply a complicated moral issue of mother vs baby) with "nasty side effects", and assume that without this medication 80% of population would suffer a fate objectively worse than these side-effects (…

What Facebook is offering is not internet in any form. Their advertisement has made this an argument into subset of internet vs full internet which is not the case here. Arguably getting tied up into the walled garden of Facebook is worse than the prospect of full access to internet at sometime in future.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#158

Post by throwaway2048 »

prostoalex wrote: post #144
throwaway2048 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its not a "reasonable compromise" from the point of view that Facebook is supposedly acting altruistically, this is a 100% self interested power play.

Is someone whose wireless Internet budget tops at $0 better off with access to 1 communication tool or 0? (I realize that "unlimited communication tools" is the best answer here, but no one provides it at the budget specified, at least yet).

if the plan goes ahead, that could very easily turn into "never provides", via facebook content lockin and strongarming.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#160

Post by mahranch »

shas3 wrote: post #143
mahranch wrote: post #75

If I was facebook, I'd tread lightly. India has a long history of reneging on deals. Once a deal is struck with most nations, that's it. Done deal. With India, they don't care - they'll do whatever is convenient for them. They did just that on a huge WTO deal years in the making (source: http://www.npr.org/2014/08/10/339292735/why-indias-modi-defi... ). The also reneged on a solar energy trade agreement with the U.S…

Nicely done. Playing up stereotypes based on a couple of anecdotes. Do you have any solid evidence about this? Are you accusing a mass of 1.3 billion people, 1/5th of humanity, and their representative agents and agencies of being, what, dishonorable? Let me google it for you, "china renege on deal" https://www.google.com/search?q=china+reneges+on+deal&oq=chi... "russia renege on deal" https://www.google.com/search?q…

> laying up stereotypes based on a couple of anecdotes

I linked actual, HUGE trade deals that were important, worth billions, and between 2 nations. You linked me to empty search results.

Find me a single example of Russia or China reneging on deals with the WTO or with massive trade agreements between the U.S. There is a huge, massive difference.

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