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Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

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Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#111

Post by bipin_nag »

prostoalex wrote: post #89
quadrangle wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Facebook is rich enough and powerful enough to MAKE the choice be full-internet or nothing. They and other powerful entities can provide full internet. It is THEIR fault that the choice is FaceBook or nothing because they want that to be the choice. FaceBook is not some savior here. The ramifications of pushing everyone to FB are also devastating because they would force everyone to get locked in to using F…

Facebook is not a carrier. If any carrier chooses to provide full Internet access for free, they may do so. So far they haven't, though. Which is why company-sponsored basic service that's free to the users emerged in the first place.

Google has announced free Wi-Fi at 100 railway stations in India. I think it does something similar in other countries (and there is Google Fibre). It is just a start but more sensible than what facebook chose to do.

Now this is what I think. Facebook is interested in being a monopoly and this step will ensure its rivals don't get in (because facebook pays for it). This is what all the argument is about. Saying billion people will get free internet is just an eyewash. They don't give you full internet, just the part which serves their interest.

Carriers should not control/discrimintate internet access. This should apply to other companies as well.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#113

Post by o0o0_ooo »

mehrdada wrote: post #52
sremani wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let us not judge from Intellectual Ivory towers, the facts on the ground are 80% of Indians do not have internet access. You sometimes have to try "impure" methods. The question is still up in the air, whether FB Basics is gateway to full internet or if it is a walled garden. Either way, it is better than No Access. The immediate retort I get is, why not facebook provide free internet access to poor. Guys, is it thei…

> the facts on the ground are 80% of Indians do not have internet access The facts on the ground for everywhere in the world not too long ago was worse than 20% access to the Internet. And I bet the current 20% Indian Internet users have much much faster connections than dial-up. Things change. Fast. It is disingenuous to ignore the natural connectivity growth trajectory and focus on today's number only. Most will ge…

Absolutely. I have been living in Cambodia for quite a while now, and despite overall adoption still being just above India's, connectivity is exploding here too.

"Internet use in Cambodia grew a staggering 414 per cent since January 2014"

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/cambodians-flock-net

It's exciting to see. Most people in Phnom Penh have a smart phone, and I meet more and more full-fledged computer nerds and Cambodian programmers all the time. I have no doubt that Cambodia will be fully connected within 5 or max 10 years, without the "help" of Facebook.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#114

Post by golergka »

discardorama wrote: post #17
sremani wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let us not judge from Intellectual Ivory towers, the facts on the ground are 80% of Indians do not have internet access. You sometimes have to try "impure" methods. The question is still up in the air, whether FB Basics is gateway to full internet or if it is a walled garden. Either way, it is better than No Access. The immediate retort I get is, why not facebook provide free internet access to poor. Guys, is it thei…

> Let us not judge from Intellectual Ivory towers, Labeling someone who disagrees with you as being in an "ivory tower" is basically an ad-hominem. Argue the merits, not the source. > the facts on the ground are 80% of Indians do not have internet access. You sometimes have to try "impure" methods. The question is still up in the air, whether FB Basics is gateway to full internet or if it is a walled garden. Either w…

> What if a pharma company came and said, "you know, this medicine causes birth defects, but it's OK to push it on Indians because 80% lack decent medication"... would you be for it?

If you replace "birth defects" (which imply a complicated moral issue of mother vs baby) with "nasty side effects", and assume that without this medication 80% of population would suffer a fate objectively worse than these side-effects (like loss of hearing vs death) — why the hell not?

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#115

Post by tdaltonc »

manash wrote: post #107
tdaltonc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why not let [the customer] choose" is an argument that can be made of any net neutrality debate. Should there be fast-lanes in the US? TWC: We'll offer plans with and without fast-lanes and let the customers choose! Either the internet is the internet or it's not. Facebook wants to bring Facebook to rural villages? Fine, but they have to bring the whole internet with them.

"Should there be fast-lanes in the US?" Yes. Why not? Just like should there be expensive doctors, restaurants, entertainment, etc.? Obviously yes. "Either the internet is the internet or it's not. Facebook wants to bring Facebook to rural villages? Fine, but they have to bring the whole internet with them." My point is let the people in the rural villages decided wether they want Facebook internet or other forms of…

Anarchic markets/networks don't always give the best results. The regulators have an important role to play in designing a network that gives the best results to all players. Net neutrality is a good set of principles for creating a network that gives the best results for the people on the network. It's good for networks in the US and it's good for networks in India.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#116

Post by tim333 »

jeevand wrote: post #96

Coming from a rural farming community in India i think this is a very bad deal. I speak with my folks when i visit India about how they use technology. The use cases are very practical such as turning off/on the pumpset, since the fields are far and the power comes and goes at different times, this kind of app is amazing. I can think of similar use cases once IoT takes off. ex: Checking the water levels in paddy fiel…

It seems kind of a mixed deal for that stuff. Apparently you can submit your app to use free basics and stuff like you mention should qualify. On the other hand it's easier to put a service on the regular web than to have to apply to Facebook. Actually hacking free basics might be good for things like checking the water levels - you could get a cheap phone pointed at the tank with an app to look at the water, use Facebook's data and enjoy the knowledge that that phone isn't going to be pokeing or candy-crushing.

https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/participat...

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#117

Post by prostoalex »

bipin_nag wrote: post #111
prostoalex wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is not a carrier. If any carrier chooses to provide full Internet access for free, they may do so. So far they haven't, though. Which is why company-sponsored basic service that's free to the users emerged in the first place.

Google has announced free Wi-Fi at 100 railway stations in India. I think it does something similar in other countries (and there is Google Fibre). It is just a start but more sensible than what facebook chose to do. Now this is what I think. Facebook is interested in being a monopoly and this step will ensure its rivals don't get in (because facebook pays for it). This is what all the argument is about. Saying billi…

Cost structures for providing free WiFi and providing wireless telecom service are completely different though - a telecom ought to procure proper licensing, acquire some spectrum and buy/rent tower space before they earn their first dollar.

End of the day it's all about barriers for entry - the barrier to provide free WiFi is relatively low, and one can do it at the cost of an uplink connection and a wireless router. If you find a way to lower the barrier for wireless telecom space, the market forces will take over.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#118

Post by prostoalex »

firasd wrote: post #15
sremani wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let us not judge from Intellectual Ivory towers, the facts on the ground are 80% of Indians do not have internet access. You sometimes have to try "impure" methods. The question is still up in the air, whether FB Basics is gateway to full internet or if it is a walled garden. Either way, it is better than No Access. The immediate retort I get is, why not facebook provide free internet access to poor. Guys, is it thei…

The problem is once you've tried this "impure" method there is no turning back. Once an ISP finds out they can offer some apps free but make other apps count towards data usage, the whole nature of the internet changes. Note that zero-rating is just one aspect of what mobile networks want to do; before the explosive activism in March, they were being more flagrant and trying to charge extra for each WhatsApp message…

> The problem is once you've tried this "impure" method there is no turning back.

AOL and CompuServe are good counter-points.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#119

Post by prostoalex »

firasd wrote: post #24
barney54 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is there no turning back? Why not let people choose for themselves instead of limiting choices you don't think are good for them?

So you’re fine with the idea that every time you load news​.ycombi​na​tor​.com your ISP charges you $0.10 extra, but if you load TMZ​.com it’s free? That would not be “the internet” in my books, and I’m glad that across the world, from Obama & the FCC to India, people are standing steadfast to endorse net neutrality. As for why there’s no turning back: for most of the internet’s history we’ve had ‘de facto’ net neutr…

> That would not be “the internet” in my books

Which is why you are free to take your business to another ISP that does no such shenanigans.

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