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Android NDK: GCC is now deprecated, everyone should be switching to Clang

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Re: Android NDK: GCC is now deprecated, everyone should be switching to Clang

#251
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The dream of a GPL world where the software is free and you only pay for the hardware, is pretty much gone. I feel like you are missing the point of the GNU GPL.

yeah. Software can be both libre and not free (as in you have to pay for it). The only difference being that once you paid for it, you OWN it, the same as you own, say your shoes (I was going to go for the car example, but that is less and less true. We do not own our car anymore.)

Then a bicycle perhaps.

Re: Android NDK: GCC is now deprecated, everyone should be switching to Clang

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have likely confused what the pro-FSF people say... Likely they said it is unethical for you to distribute software with out access to the code. Which you interpreted to be against profiting since you likely believe that open source == no profit.

I'm well aware of how to make money with open-source software. I do it. I am working to no longer do it, because wage slavery (be it W-2 or under the guise of "consulting") sucks. Turns out that you need capital to do that, and the FSF's insistence that digital bits as capital is immoral is silly.

> Turns out that you need capital to do that, and the FSF's insistence that digital bits as capital is immoral is silly.

Jesus. Read this http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#DoesTheGPLAllowM... and this http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

It's a pity that you're so misinformed. :(

Re: Android NDK: GCC is now deprecated, everyone should be switching to Clang

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm well aware of how to make money with open-source software. I do it. I am working to no longer do it, because wage slavery (be it W-2 or under the guise of "consulting") sucks. Turns out that you need capital to do that, and the FSF's insistence that digital bits as capital is immoral is silly.

> Turns out that you need capital to do that, and the FSF's insistence that digital bits as capital is immoral is silly. Jesus. Read this http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#DoesTheGPLAllowM... and this http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html It's a pity that you're so misinformed. :(

That has nothing to do with what I've said, and I don't think you understand what capital is. The GPL is fundamentally incompatible with the notion of software as a capital asset; when its value as a salable object is effectively zero due to the ease of marginal duplication, one's business model becomes a labor-oriented one, i.e. consulting. Which means burning one's time, which is what one acquires capital assets to avoid doing.

But, clearly, I'm so misinformed. I obviously haven't thought this through. I didn't read everything Stallman wrote a decade ago. And I certainly haven't read the GPL (both v2 and v3) line-by-line to understand its ramifications.

It's a pity you felt like you needed to be an asshole about this.

Re: Android NDK: GCC is now deprecated, everyone should be switching to Clang

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turns out that you need capital to do that, and the FSF's insistence that digital bits as capital is immoral is silly. Jesus. Read this http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#DoesTheGPLAllowM... and this http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html It's a pity that you're so misinformed. :(

That has nothing to do with what I've said, and I don't think you understand what capital is. The GPL is fundamentally incompatible with the notion of software as a capital asset; when its value as a salable object is effectively zero due to the ease of marginal duplication, one's business model becomes a labor-oriented one, i.e. consulting. Which means burning one's time, which is what one acquires capital assets to…

> ...I don't think you understand what capital is.

I -uh- do.

> The GPL is fundamentally incompatible with the notion of software as a capital asset; when its value as a salable object is effectively zero due to the ease of marginal duplication...

Two things

1) That applies to all software. All software -regardless of license- has an effectively-zero duplication cost.

2) You can still sell software distributed under the terms of the GPLv2. You can charge any price you like.

Calling me names doesn't change the falsity of your statement, which was:

> [T]he FSF... [insists] that [treating] digital bits as capital is immoral[.]

This isn't their position. It never was.

You seem to think that the only way a thing can be considered capital is if one retains the exclusive rights to control the distribution of the thing. This is an over-narrow definition of capital. :)

Re: Android NDK: GCC is now deprecated, everyone should be switching to Clang

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

only on hacker news would someone spell "pivot", but pronounce it "sell out". I'll bask in the downvotes that comes with telling the harsh truth. I got karma to burn, folks.

No, not "sell out." Pivot. They could have served their users even better, but they didn't out of stubbornness. Now the market has spoken.

When "pivot" means "compromise your internal values to be profitable", you have sold out, my friend.

Re: Android NDK: GCC is now deprecated, everyone should be switching to Clang

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have likely confused what the pro-FSF people say... Likely they said it is unethical for you to distribute software with out access to the code. Which you interpreted to be against profiting since you likely believe that open source == no profit.

I'm well aware of how to make money with open-source software. I do it. I am working to no longer do it, because wage slavery (be it W-2 or under the guise of "consulting") sucks. Turns out that you need capital to do that, and the FSF's insistence that digital bits as capital is immoral is silly.

Then you really would not like my world view...

FSF at least supports the concept of government granted monoplies over ideas, I do not. I would love to see the end of copyright, and patents as a concept.

I firmly believe a world with less windows and more linux would be a wonderful place...

Re: Android NDK: GCC is now deprecated, everyone should be switching to Clang

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has nothing to do with what I've said, and I don't think you understand what capital is. The GPL is fundamentally incompatible with the notion of software as a capital asset; when its value as a salable object is effectively zero due to the ease of marginal duplication, one's business model becomes a labor-oriented one, i.e. consulting. Which means burning one's time, which is what one acquires capital assets to…

> ...I don't think you understand what capital is. I -uh- do. > The GPL is fundamentally incompatible with the notion of software as a capital asset; when its value as a salable object is effectively zero due to the ease of marginal duplication... Two things 1) That applies to all software. All software -regardless of license- has an effectively-zero duplication cost. 2) You can still sell software distributed under…

> 1) That applies to all software. All software -regardless of license- has an effectively-zero duplication cost.

That's not true. Copyright allows the copyright holder to enforce a cost of copying in their license fee. You can illegally copy software at zero cost, but that's not the same thing. I can illegally ignore the GPL, too, but I won't.

> 2) You can still sell software distributed under the terms of the GPLv2. You can charge any price you like.

You're being disingenuous. The purchaser can and will inevitably redistribute the software free, plunging its effective value to zero and turning the only tenable long-term monetization strategy into a labor business. Even Red Hat is a labor business in all but name, they live off support contracts and custom development, and I would be incredibly surprised if you could find a business of nontrivial size--say, $2m/year in revenue--whose products are non-SaaS (i.e., not violating the spirit of the GPL while complying with the letter) and GPL-based for which this is not true.

I mean, this is not some shocking revelation I'm saying here--there's a reason the GPL and especially the AGPL are so popular as the crappy side of dual-license schemes, because it allows a company to hamstring those who would derive from their software while not crippling themselves.

Re: Android NDK: GCC is now deprecated, everyone should be switching to Clang

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've got it backwards; In GPL, every developer is a user. This becomes apparent when you see why the GPL came into existence and what it sets out to accomplish (Safe guarding users' freedoms at the expense of the developers').

And GP's point is that a) statistically speaking, pretty much all of the users of software today are non-developers, and b) these users don't care about the freedoms that the GPL seeks to protect. Even in the small subset of users that are developers, the popularity of permissive licenses indicates that most would rather just use and open up source code without worrying about restrictions imposed by others or imposin…

...that, statistically speaking, nobody really cares about yet.

Re: Android NDK: GCC is now deprecated, everyone should be switching to Clang

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm well aware of how to make money with open-source software. I do it. I am working to no longer do it, because wage slavery (be it W-2 or under the guise of "consulting") sucks. Turns out that you need capital to do that, and the FSF's insistence that digital bits as capital is immoral is silly.

Then you really would not like my world view... FSF at least supports the concept of government granted monoplies over ideas, I do not. I would love to see the end of copyright, and patents as a concept. I firmly believe a world with less windows and more linux would be a wonderful place...

So it's okay for landowners to make money off capital, but software developers should be serfs?

That's real messed up.

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