Live data from Hacker News

Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

qz.com

71–80 of 105 posts

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#71
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm not Chinese nor do I have a particular stake, but I was there for three weeks this summer and was overwhelmed by a kind of social optimism" It is normal to fall in love when you meet a different culture. It takes 6 months or so living on a country to start seeing caveats and "not so good things" in any country. "the shared assumption that services are getting better, progress will happen, and a relentless cycle…

Literally 6 VPNs? OMG, I haven't come back to my motherchina for 2 years...Cant believe it get so bad...

As a counterpoint I visited in October this year and used ExpressVPN, which worked fine and was fast. No 6 layers of VPN required.

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#72

Wouldn't spraying water into air with sulfur oxides just create acid rain?

Yes! I lived in Poland in 70's-90's and we got nice massive acid rain which dissolved buildings and anything it landed on. No water cannons present, the natural rain was enough to ruin everything.

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#73
It's 6:30AM here in the Chinese city of Kunming. I just returned from a 5AM trip to a market to buy some herbs for Christmas dishes. On the way I passed one of our many street cleaning water-tank trucks, which basically drive around all Chinese cities spraying the road and nearby traffic with water and a fine mist (just what you want at 5AM on an e-bike in the winter morning!). While they most operate in the early mornings and are no doubt targeted at dislodging and collecting road-top detritus, they have been about for ages and are very much ubiquitous. A separate fleet of trucks drive about spraying water on roadside gardens, which in some kind of cuddly holdover from socialist central planning are in fact very numerous compared to most western cities (with the exception of the center of older French cities, perhaps). Despite the construction boom going on, it's all Himalayan blue skies here! I pity the poor people in those polluted east-coast cities, and those in the north with their wintery outlook, and particularly those in the northeast like Beijing where not only do you have both problems, but the time dedicated to negotiating traffic every time you leave your house is soul-crushing...

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#74

Say what you will about China and its pollution, it's an interesting attempt at a solution.[1] Could you imagine something like that implemented easily in the US before caught within lawyer-string nets of liability? China has many problems, but many HN readers bashing China have probably never set foot there and are formulating their understanding based off of western media and the socioeconomic + cultural dynamics o…

"I'm not Chinese nor do I have a particular stake, but I was there for three weeks this summer and was overwhelmed by a kind of social optimism" It is normal to fall in love when you meet a different culture. It takes 6 months or so living on a country to start seeing caveats and "not so good things" in any country. "the shared assumption that services are getting better, progress will happen, and a relentless cycle…

"because people in power is desperate to control their own people". I agree with this comment. One has to use VPN to access some websites. The restrictions are definitely getting tighter.

But 6 layers of VPN? I don't know about this. I was in China for 3 weeks this past summer. VyprVPN worked very well for my and my family.

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#75
post #49
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is still in the top "energy use per capita" countries. Of course it is, the US is responsible for a huge percent of the world's output. How could you create things without energy?

But that's not what parent claimed; parent claimed that US democracy mean the US wasn't a passive polluter. But since you're here: what's the US GDP per capita, compared to other less polluting countries?

Presuming no stealth edits, what the parent claims is

> There's no democratic element to demand a higher level of service, say with how the US had its environment movement which led to many laws protecting the land, air, and water and ultimately culminated into several state agencies, federal guidelines, the EPA, etc.

So you've very effectively slaughtered that strawman detailed in your claim about the original claim.

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#76

Say what you will about China and its pollution, it's an interesting attempt at a solution.[1] Could you imagine something like that implemented easily in the US before caught within lawyer-string nets of liability? China has many problems, but many HN readers bashing China have probably never set foot there and are formulating their understanding based off of western media and the socioeconomic + cultural dynamics o…

many HN readers bashing China have probably never set foot there Readers of Hacker News who have been reading the Chinese press in the original Chinese since the 1970s and who have been to the Chinese-speaking world since the 1980s and thereafter (as I have) get really sick and tired of credulous Westerners believing propaganda from China, that's all. I can remember a time from the 1980s when China (by contrast with…

Oh come on tokenadult, it's not like China's the same place it was in the 70s and 80s! Not only has government policy shifted immensely just since the 90s (start and end of one child policy, WTO joined, passports and international travel freely available for (almost) all citizens, internationalization push for the RMB just to name a few big policies) but honestly, most places are unrecognizable since Y2K!

China's mode of governance, while responsible for some horrible problems and extremely frustrating to be on the wrong side of, is not without its positive points. Hand-waving it off as a "dictatorship" implies there is no internal political change, that political terms are re-granted to the same power-base, that secret police stalk and raid the population with great frequency... something much more aking to Lee Kwan-Yew's Singapore. That's simply not the case, and I know that even my government-critical Chinese friends here on the ground believe that the reigns of power are wielded to some extent differently by different leaders, and that within the communist party exist factions and new ideas.

Almost the only thing Chinese people pretty much ever say when political issues are raised is "the population is too large ... there is no other option!" (人口太多了!没办法!) While hideously frustrating for westerners (consequently Chinese people rarely complain, disbelieving that fighting to leave feedback with bureaucracies has any effect) it is immensely pragmatic from another perspective. Remember, the population which incorporates entirely disparate language families (everything from Turkic to Tibeto-Burman to Sinitic to Tai) now effectively has total literacy and a mutually comprehensible spoken language... Mao and his legacy, for all his terrible failures, did achieve that, and nobody can argue otherwise.

Shouting "dictatorship" when basically China would have been another India without the events of the 20th century, which nobody could have foretold, falls hollow and in fact riles these ears... those without experience in the country hear too much of this fallacious drivel through the media already. You don't need to fuel it.

PS. Before I am accused of being some kind of victim of propaganda, I literally never watch TV or read Chinese government media and my 15 years in and out of the country has been tempered with roughly equal time on three other continents.

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their customers stop sending them money? Would probably shut down most operations pretty quickly.

Why would their customers do that?

So that less coal product is emitted into the atmosphere? I thought that was the premise.

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#78
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that policy decision worth it? Well according to http://www.globalissues.org/article/4/poverty-around-the-wor... """ Accounting for the increased population between 1981 and 2005, the poverty rate has, however, fallen by about 25%. While this at least sounds encouraging, it masks regional variations, and perhaps most glaringly the impact of China: China’s poverty rate fell from 85% to 15.9%, or by over 600 millio…

This is an interesting dilema

... and precisely the sort of issue that only the Chinese government face. Hand-waving external commentators are quick to identify differences and ascribe guilt and blame, but often decisions must be made with consequences no honest and empathetic person would wish to set in motion. Look at the hydropower projects versus US military dominance of global oil... China (1.4 billion) is about 32% of Asia's (4.3b) population and 19% of the world's (7.3b). Imagine: one in five humans depends on your decision.

Reply to sean as out of posties: You want transparency in decision making? The west pretends it has it, but in reality even on matters of fiscal policy it doesn't. For example, look at central bank interest rate setting. It's done by secret departments. As another example, I asked Australia's body why it didn't embrace the IBAN like Europe, Israel and a growing list of other countries. I got no reply. Pot, kettle, black.

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#79
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India's pollution is as bad, if not worse: http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/02/india-v...

The biggest relevant fact on that page is half hidden. China pumps out 10 gigatonnes of CO2 every year. India? Just 2 gigatonnes tons. In fact, you could combine the U.S, E.U and India's C02 annual output, and it still wouldn't be as much as China. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... Why does that matter? Because India has roughly the same population size as China, but pumps signif…

India is majority vegetarian, has roads so bad no sane person would enjoy driving a car, and is a continental peninsula surrounded by ocean.

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#80

Say what you will about China and its pollution, it's an interesting attempt at a solution.[1] Could you imagine something like that implemented easily in the US before caught within lawyer-string nets of liability? China has many problems, but many HN readers bashing China have probably never set foot there and are formulating their understanding based off of western media and the socioeconomic + cultural dynamics o…

The majority of Western media are simply reluctant to give credit for any progress China has made. When they did, they never failed to emphasize that the air pollution, the products of low quality, the Communist government, the violation of human rights, etc.

It is true that all of these problems exist. They can't be solved in a short time. Many Chinese think that it might take a generation to solve some, two or more generations to solve the others. They also complained a lot, but know it is not an easy job. If anybody cares to look at the history of industrialization and its affects on the society and their people's life, they know Chinese are paying the same price, maybe at less scales. It is unfortunate both for the world and for Chinese themselves. The question is, have we human beings find a feasible alternative approach to achieve the same goal while bypass all the negative stages?

As for air pollution, it is a horror. It is undeniable. Just look at the air condition today in Beijing and New Dehli. http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/ http://aqicn.org/city/india/new-delhi/us-embassy/

At least the government establishes many monitoring stations and suggests people stay inside. China and India are similar in many aspects. People in both countries, especially the young generations, are working hard to improve their motherlands. But, how often do we hear the media talk about air pollution in India?

Post reply on HN