I'm in Beijing this week. The pollution here has to be seen (and felt, as you breathe) to be believed. I'm not surprised that all sorts of technical solutions are being discussed, just because it's so crazy terrible. Whether such proposals (such as a mist cannon) is a real solution is a good question, but it's worth trying lots of stuff.
Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky
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Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky
#52It's a real-life ATSHCME air displacement effectuator. David Foster Wallace would be so pleased.
I assume the toxic waste catapults aimed at Tibet would be next.
Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky
#53Say what you will about China and its pollution, it's an interesting attempt at a solution.[1] Could you imagine something like that implemented easily in the US before caught within lawyer-string nets of liability? China has many problems, but many HN readers bashing China have probably never set foot there and are formulating their understanding based off of western media and the socioeconomic + cultural dynamics o…
lol. been to some Chinese village cor a holiday and became a China expert.
The GP never asserted being an expert and made a well-reasoned argument (unlike yours). I spent three weeks in China last year and generally got the same impression.
We westerners perceive Chinese people as oppressed and poor, but the people I talked to were extremely friendly and optimistic.
Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky
#54Say what you will about China and its pollution, it's an interesting attempt at a solution.[1] Could you imagine something like that implemented easily in the US before caught within lawyer-string nets of liability? China has many problems, but many HN readers bashing China have probably never set foot there and are formulating their understanding based off of western media and the socioeconomic + cultural dynamics o…
"I'm not Chinese nor do I have a particular stake, but I was there for three weeks this summer and was overwhelmed by a kind of social optimism"
It is normal to fall in love when you meet a different culture.
It takes 6 months or so living on a country to start seeing caveats and "not so good things" in any country.
"the shared assumption that services are getting better, progress will happen, and a relentless cycle of innovation"
It is called a "bubble", I traveled frequently to Spain(my native country) and Ireland while the shared assumption that everything was getting better was at full power and all media was talking about those "economic miracles".
When those miracles reversed it was not(and it is not) pretty.
My father lived the Japanese "economic miracle" of Japan, the country that was going to rule the world.
I lived 5 years in China at the beginning of the bubble. It is an entire world in itself, but they have BIG problems. I continue traveling and doing business in China, and it is getting worse day after day.
When I was there I could use a normal VPN without problems, and Chinese authorities could not care less, as it was necessary for the business. But now you have to use like 6 layers of VPN, change patterns of navigation...because people in power is desperate to control their own people.
Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky
#55Or you know, you can just like not pollute the shit out of the Earth. China is the worst.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/datablog/2009/sep/02/...
+
China 9,679.30 GHG emissions (MtCO2e)[1], United States 6,668.79 GHG emissions (MtCO2e)[1] - population China ~1.3 billion[2], population United States ~330 million[3]
Do the math!
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhous...
Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why aren't the coal-burning energy utility companies paying for them, out of pocket? Because no-one has the power to make them, I think. If it's easier (and probably cheaper) to take measures to address the problem yourself than it is to force compliance, then that's the sensible way to go.
Their customers stop sending them money? Would probably shut down most operations pretty quickly.
Why would their customers do that?
Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky
#57Say what you will about China and its pollution, it's an interesting attempt at a solution.[1] Could you imagine something like that implemented easily in the US before caught within lawyer-string nets of liability? China has many problems, but many HN readers bashing China have probably never set foot there and are formulating their understanding based off of western media and the socioeconomic + cultural dynamics o…
"I'm not Chinese nor do I have a particular stake, but I was there for three weeks this summer and was overwhelmed by a kind of social optimism" It is normal to fall in love when you meet a different culture. It takes 6 months or so living on a country to start seeing caveats and "not so good things" in any country. "the shared assumption that services are getting better, progress will happen, and a relentless cycle…
Literally 6 VPNs? OMG, I haven't come back to my motherchina for 2 years...Cant believe it get so bad...
Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky
#58Reducing pollution in the air, by polluting the water.
Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky
#59Say what you will about China and its pollution, it's an interesting attempt at a solution.[1] Could you imagine something like that implemented easily in the US before caught within lawyer-string nets of liability? China has many problems, but many HN readers bashing China have probably never set foot there and are formulating their understanding based off of western media and the socioeconomic + cultural dynamics o…
Not sure how exposed you were to clever soft propaganda in those 3 weeks in China :) As a Chinese, I can tell you I don't feel any social optimism at all.
1) Much political infighting at the top
2) The richer people are moving family to Canada / US / Australia
3) Credit bubble, bad debt in banks
4) Migrant workers and women from villages are constantly getting exploited without any protection
5) Pollution
6) Food is not safe to eat. People buying baby formula from overseas
7) I can go on and on...
Technological "innovations" don't solve problems in a society where there's no trust and no fairness. Please tell where those social optimism come from?
Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know if this is a joke, but China is more like unregulated capitalism than communism, it's probably more capitalistic than most European countries.
You really really don't know what you're talking about. The State in China explicitly picks winners and losers from state companies (in particular banks), tightly controls currencies, tries to resist movement of labour, and attempts to hide moral hazard through censorship. All the while guaranteeing full employment.
There are definitely still some communist elements there, like large state owned enterprises and a very controlling/authoritarian government.
But some of the key definitions of capitalism is quite entrenched in the society:
- means of production are privately owned
- profit-motive
- market-driven economy / competition
- inequality
- minimal government interference
China definitely does not fit all the hard-core capitalism definitions, especially the minimal government interference part, but it's closer to a capitalist economy than a communist one.
Lastly, no, the state does not guarantee employment, that has not been true for at least 30 years.