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Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

bbc.com

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Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#111

Post by gozur88 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #18
davidw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article actually specifically calls out agriculture in China: "The Chinese resistance cases were down to overuse of antibiotics in agriculture."

Yes, but at least in China there is the political will to tackle environment issues. The US is still locked and highly corrupt :/

When you can't breathe your concern about the environment goes up markedly. The reason you don't see as much concern in the US is we've already tackled the obvious, major problems.

At one time in the US there were rivers you could set alight, but that was a long time ago.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#112

Post by gozur88 »

geertj wrote: post #10

I'm hoping new antibiotics like Teixobactin get to market quickly. That said multiple comments have been made here on HN on how there are no incentives for the pharmaceutical industry to bring a new antibiotic to market. It would likely be prescribed as a last effort antibiotic, with a very low volume.

The problem is this is kind of a catch-22 for drug companies. If they only release a new antibiotic in IV form, meaning it will only be administered at hospitals, they don't get enough volume to make money. So why research the next one?

In general I'm a pretty free-market guy, but this is one area I'd like to see the government more involved, both in subsidizing new antibiotic development and in making sure we have a stock of antibiotics that still work.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#113

Post by Houshalter »

themartorana wrote: post #2

Officials say the threat to human health is low, but is under ongoing review. I feel better? Is my kid going to live in a post-apocalyptic world where a new Black Plague has wiped out 2/3 of the population because it is completely antibiotic resistant? Or will new solutions (maybe ones that attack at a molecular level) be available first? I'm not asking rhetorically, any input would be awesome.

Modern sanitation helps a lot more than antibiotics. We don't throw our shit in the streets, we don't spend time around animals, people wash their hands and take showers, and we understand that sick people are contagious and can avoid them. The black plague spread through fleas on rats.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#114

Post by robotkilla »

jMyles wrote: post #105
robotkilla wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to preface this response by making it clear that I personally avoid eating animals that were raised on antibiotics, however the argument that the onus must be placed on the individual is absolutely ridiculous. Even though this is a "hot button topic", I don't think eating meat that you can afford (IE antibiotic raised meat) can possibly be compared to race or gender inequalities. Eating a factory cheeseburge…

> Eating a factory cheeseburger is akin to racism? Seriously? This is a logic fallacy. Do you realize that there are several religions that hold this exact tenet? And that it's one of the central tenets of Rastafari? Maybe these people all live their lives based on a logical fallacy, but I don't think it's so far wrong. Both racism and factory farming come down to disrespect for 'the other.' > Racism comes from the i…

> Do you realize that there are several religions that hold this exact tenet? And that it's one of the central tenets of Rastafari?

A central tenet of rastafari is to abstain from antibiotic raised meat? Can you cite a source on this?

Even if this is true, why do you think that the religious beliefs of this or other religions holds any sort of sway over people who are not in those religions? For example, you do realize that it is a core religious tenet of the Westboro Baptist Church and many other Christian religions that homosexuals will burn in hell, but this doesn't mean it is true... in fact most educated people would argue that hell doesn't even exist.

> Maybe these people all live their lives based on a logical fallacy, but I don't think it's so far wrong

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point then.

> Go propose a talk at any Black Studies department in the country with this as your thesis and let us know how it goes.

So the progress we've made in the United States through laws and regulations regarding race and gender is a lie then? Those laws exist because of special interest groups, protesters etc. sure -- but you do realize that laws surrounding these issues exist now that didn't exist before, don't you?

This is a very foolish argument and I have no more to say on the matter.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#115

Post by dredmorbius »

TTPrograms wrote: post #104
_oej6 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > "antibiotic of last resort - colistin" > "The DNA that gives bacteria resistance to colistin - the mcr-1 gene - can spread rapidly between species. The concern is that colistin-resistance will now find its way into other superbugs to create infections that doctors cannot treat. "

Is there reason to think that bacteria with every gene for antibiotic resistance would be at all viable? It seems likely that these genes have other negative effects on fitness that make them unlikely to spread significantly in the absence of the antibiotic.

The tendency, under selective pressures, is for organisms to become more fit over time. By applying constant antibiotic-induced generalised selective pressure, you're greatly increasing those odds

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#116

Post by robotkilla »

noondip wrote: post #91
robotkilla wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Comparing a realistic solution with an idealized one Now government regulations placed on the agricultural industry are idealistic? > dismissing or even discounting the realistic solution I am strongly encouraging the more realistic solution, not dismissing or discounting it. How is expecting an impactful number of people to discontinue antibiotic meat usage more realistic than expecting government to step in? > ab…

Holding the government to such optimistic standards is blatantly a straw man. We both know how little gets done unless money is involved, and unfortunately for us all, the animal agriculture business has incredible political power. I challenge your assertion you avoid antibiotic animal products altogether - an impractical and unverifiable way to discourage the use of antibiotics. If you are serious, consider how purc…

> Holding the government to such optimistic standards is blatantly a straw man

No, it isn't. From wikipedia:

"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent."

> I challenge your assertion you avoid antibiotic animal products altogether - an impractical and unverifiable way to discourage the use of antibiotics

I'm arguing for government regulation -- I agree that regulating yourself is an impractical and unverifiable way to discourage the use of anitbiotics, as is discontinuing the consumption of meat for the same purpose.

> Shaming isn't necessary

Again, the same thing I'm saying -- glad we could agree with each other.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#117

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #27
arethuza wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had my son suffer from an antibiotic resistant eye infection, if its a choice between low cost meat and useful antibiotics I'll go for the latter every time. It's not like anyone in Europe or the US is actually suffering from a lack of meat is it? [He's fine - but we were terrified he might lose the sight in one eye for a while].

I am not suggesting that antibiotics in meat are a good thing, but I am pointing out the reality that antibiotic-free meat is a luxury item.

[deleted]

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#118

Post by austinjp »

robbiep wrote: post #103
austinjp wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that's interesting I don't think it's "best evidence". Unfortunately our mechanisms for determining best evidence are woefully slow, complex, and expensive. Systematic reviews, for instance. Either this process needs to be improved (an excellent candidate for AI) or a nearly-as-good surrogate needs to be supported by policy makers.

what are your thoughts on how an AI would perform this task?

My thoughts on this are loosely formed :)

However....

The systematic review and meta-analyses processes involve reading screeds of text and data; organising it; analysing it; weighing it against measures of quality; and conducting (often counter-intuitive) statistical procedures.

This is the sort of thing that takes humans a loooooong time and is prone to error. A domain-specific AI would surely excel at tasks like this.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#119

Post by Betelgeuse90 »

Houshalter wrote: post #62
Betelgeuse90 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen. Animal agriculture (innocuously referred to as "agriculture" in the article) has to be the single biggest contributor to the existence of these superbugs.

Possibly. Agriculture uses about 50% of the world's supply of antibiotics. The rest goes to humans. That's a lot, but even without it, there are enough humans on antibiotics to breed resistant strains. Many people take low doses of antibiotics every day for certain conditions like acne.

I think a factor of importance is how much selective pressure there is that could lead to their creation. The sporadic and fairly arbitrary use in humans doesn't create a selective pressure strong enough to create these superbugs in meaningful amounts and have them survive.

When used en masse in large, concentrated populations, you're statistically much more likely to bring these superbugs into existence, and have them survive. After all, an infected human is fairly isolated. But Stick an infected chicken in a hen and you've got some trouble on your hands.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#120

Post by stefantalpalaru »

cbeach wrote: post #34

Studies show that immigration, sadly, is linked to the spread of antibiotic-resistant diseases. Example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25418572/ Immigrant hotspots in London now have tuberculosis rates higher than Iraq and Rwanda. 80% of cases are people born abroad, and some are antibiotic-resistant. This is a disease we thought we'd erradicated: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34637968 The U.K. h…

> This is a disease we thought we'd erradicated

You can't eradicate tuberculosis, but you can prevent the active form rather easily by making sure the population is well fed.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs104/en/ :

> About one-third of the world's population has latent TB, which means people have been infected by TB bacteria but are not (yet) ill with the disease and cannot transmit the disease.

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