Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK • Hacker News Board

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#101

Post by vacri » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 2:03 AM UTC

cbeach wrote: post #34

Studies show that immigration, sadly, is linked to the spread of antibiotic-resistant diseases. Example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25418572/ Immigrant hotspots in London now have tuberculosis rates higher than Iraq and Rwanda. 80% of cases are people born abroad, and some are antibiotic-resistant. This is a disease we thought we'd erradicated: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34637968 The U.K. h…

> But I hope lefties realise that it's their suppression of debate that frustrates people and leads them supporting reactionary leaders like Trump.

This has to be the biggest pile of horseshit I've read on HN recently. It's cool if you're not a left-winger yourself, but don't make shit up and then subsequently complain that people aren't treating you fairly because you provide a link elsewhere in your comment and are therefore 'sourced'.

Similarly, the "this is going to be downvoted" is a very adolescent way of debating. If you're upvoted, you 'win', because you scored well, and if you're downvoted, you 'win', because 'I called it; you're all a bunch of reactionaries'.

If you actually want a proper discussion, don't pre-shame your opponents.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#102

Post by 6d0debc071 » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 2:03 AM UTC

fiatmoney wrote: post #24

mschuster91 wrote: post #5

How about the most obvious solution: Stop keeping (farm) animals in conditions that require mass antibiotic feedings for the animals to survive?!

People like to blame antibiotic resistance on farms, but human populations with high rates of infection and transmission who aren't good at taking the full course of (or any) drugs are a more immediate problem. Increasing rates of drug-resistant tuberculosis and STDs aren't due to farm animals.

> Increasing rates of drug-resistant tuberculosis and STDs aren't due to farm animals.

Do you have any evidence for that or is it just how you think adaptation transmission works; and do you have evidence that - if the former holds - these examples are representative of the general case?

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#103

Post by robbiep » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 2:26 AM UTC

austinjp wrote: post #81

robbiep wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best evidence today actually says that you don't need to finish your course [0]. Not that you are wrong in the human consumption aspect. but finishing courses could strengthen resistance and spread of resistant organisms by creating a selective pressure in the organism (the human) to only have bacterial colonization from those that are resistant [0] https://www.mja.com.au/insight/2015/5/stop-antibiotics-exper...

While that's interesting I don't think it's "best evidence". Unfortunately our mechanisms for determining best evidence are woefully slow, complex, and expensive. Systematic reviews, for instance. Either this process needs to be improved (an excellent candidate for AI) or a nearly-as-good surrogate needs to be supported by policy makers.

what are your thoughts on how an AI would perform this task?

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#104

Post by TTPrograms » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 2:28 AM UTC

_oej6 wrote: post #44

Wintamute wrote: post #37

What is not mentioned in the article is that the bacteria in question is treatable with a range of other antibiotics aside from Colistin ... make of that what you will.

From the article: > "antibiotic of last resort - colistin" > "The DNA that gives bacteria resistance to colistin - the mcr-1 gene - can spread rapidly between species. The concern is that colistin-resistance will now find its way into other superbugs to create infections that doctors cannot treat. "

Is there reason to think that bacteria with every gene for antibiotic resistance would be at all viable? It seems likely that these genes have other negative effects on fitness that make them unlikely to spread significantly in the absence of the antibiotic.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#105

Post by jMyles » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 2:33 AM UTC

robotkilla wrote: post #54

robotresearcher wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

final edit: I withdraw the comment below since the analogy is too inflammatory and I certainly don't intend to accuse the parent poster of racism. That's not cool or helpful. I'll leave it up so the replies make sense. How about this quote from Ghandi instead: “If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards…

I'd like to preface this response by making it clear that I personally avoid eating animals that were raised on antibiotics, however the argument that the onus must be placed on the individual is absolutely ridiculous. Even though this is a "hot button topic", I don't think eating meat that you can afford (IE antibiotic raised meat) can possibly be compared to race or gender inequalities. Eating a factory cheeseburge…

> Eating a factory cheeseburger is akin to racism? Seriously? This is a logic fallacy.

Do you realize that there are several religions that hold this exact tenet? And that it's one of the central tenets of Rastafari?

Maybe these people all live their lives based on a logical fallacy, but I don't think it's so far wrong. Both racism and factory farming come down to disrespect for 'the other.'

> Racism comes from the individual.

Most people who study racism regard it as an institution, separate but related to bigotry, which is a quality of an individual.

> I'll also point out that the only way to real change in gender and race inequalities have come about is through government or self-regulation in industries... the same thing I'm arguing for when it comes to the agricultural industry.

Go propose a talk at any Black Studies department in the country with this as your thesis and let us know how it goes.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#106

Post by jMyles » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 2:34 AM UTC

rnovak wrote: post #53

robotresearcher wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

final edit: I withdraw the comment below since the analogy is too inflammatory and I certainly don't intend to accuse the parent poster of racism. That's not cool or helpful. I'll leave it up so the replies make sense. How about this quote from Ghandi instead: “If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards…

Please explain how a direct action (racism/sexism/discrimination) is even somewhat close to the indirection required for "eating a cheesburger => deforestation"? As Bill Engval says: Evel Knievel couldn't have made that jump. How about focus on your own ethics instead of SHAMING people for eating for christ's sake.

If people eat factory farmed meat, they are acting in a shameful way. If they don't feel shame, they have no shame.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#107

Post by jMyles » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 2:39 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #47

jMyles wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tptacek, It seems to me that, in every thread, you find a way to dream that more "regulations" will solve all of the social ills of the US and beyond. The agri-industrial complex is perhaps the clearest example that the powerful among the regulated will find a way to be the regulators. What more needs to happen to clarify this for you?

Regulations are a right tool for the job here. What would be a non-regulatory approach? Let the market decide? The market decided; it doesn't give a flying damn about things like loss of antibiotics for human healthcare; people want their cheap meat, the market delivers. If it involves overusing antibiotics, so be it.

Are you saying that the current situation is market-driven? Because that's ludicrous.

Big-ag is the furthest thing from a free market this side of big pharma. Have you heard of ag-gag laws? Corn subsidies? How about events like this:

http://www.wnem.com/story/26116053/farmers-forced-to-dump-pr...

...which happen all the time all over the country?

Our nation's food supply is controlled by a tiny elite for the most part, and it has completely insulated itself from market effects.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#108

Post by dang » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 2:46 AM UTC

anon79b8ad22b wrote: post #64

> We need to start discussing immigration without the stifling constraints of political correctness. Leftists only support immigration because the immigrants vote overwhelmingly for left-wing parties. It's effectively a grand scheme to establish permanent majorities for left-wing parties through demographic replacement. If these immigrants were white, Christian, and conservative, walls would have already gone up to p…

This is so off-topic it's painful, and inflammatory to the point of absurd. Please don't create accounts on HN to conduct political/religious/ideological flamewars.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10774226 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#109

Post by gozur88 » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 2:58 AM UTC

fiatmoney wrote: post #24

mschuster91 wrote: post #5

How about the most obvious solution: Stop keeping (farm) animals in conditions that require mass antibiotic feedings for the animals to survive?!

People like to blame antibiotic resistance on farms, but human populations with high rates of infection and transmission who aren't good at taking the full course of (or any) drugs are a more immediate problem. Increasing rates of drug-resistant tuberculosis and STDs aren't due to farm animals.

Animals can contract TB, so that doesn't support your case very well. That's why the sale of raw milk is illegal in the US.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#110

Post by gozur88 » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 3:00 AM UTC

Betelgeuse90 wrote: post #9

mschuster91 wrote: post #5

How about the most obvious solution: Stop keeping (farm) animals in conditions that require mass antibiotic feedings for the animals to survive?!

Amen. Animal agriculture (innocuously referred to as "agriculture" in the article) has to be the single biggest contributor to the existence of these superbugs.

I doubt it. I recall reading an article about antibiotic resistance in Denmark. They were nearly able to wipe it out completely by changing the way antibiotics were prescribed to people.