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Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

bbc.com

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Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#41

Post by robbiep »

fiatmoney wrote: post #24
mschuster91 wrote: post #5

How about the most obvious solution: Stop keeping (farm) animals in conditions that require mass antibiotic feedings for the animals to survive?!

People like to blame antibiotic resistance on farms, but human populations with high rates of infection and transmission who aren't good at taking the full course of (or any) drugs are a more immediate problem. Increasing rates of drug-resistant tuberculosis and STDs aren't due to farm animals.

The best evidence today actually says that you don't need to finish your course [0]. Not that you are wrong in the human consumption aspect. but finishing courses could strengthen resistance and spread of resistant organisms by creating a selective pressure in the organism (the human) to only have bacterial colonization from those that are resistant

[0] https://www.mja.com.au/insight/2015/5/stop-antibiotics-exper...

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#44

Post by _oej6 »

Wintamute wrote: post #37

What is not mentioned in the article is that the bacteria in question is treatable with a range of other antibiotics aside from Colistin ... make of that what you will.

From the article:

> "antibiotic of last resort - colistin"

> "The DNA that gives bacteria resistance to colistin - the mcr-1 gene - can spread rapidly between species.

The concern is that colistin-resistance will now find its way into other superbugs to create infections that doctors cannot treat. "

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#45

Post by robotkilla »

jMyles wrote: post #36
robotkilla wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually tired of the "blame the general public" argument. Blame the agricultural industry for this. I'm not going to take the blame for deforestation or lack of fresh water every time I eat a cheesburger, nor am I going to assume blame for pollution when I drive my car. Unless billions of people change within the next few years (which is so unrealistic that I feel comfortable saying it won't happen) then my indi…

I don't mean to discount your worldview, because I think that you are correct in your basic assessment ( massive change is required, not just you), but this comment reads like a giant excuse. It's plain to see that eating a factory cheeseburger does indeed cause this ill. It's not some strange economic abstraction, but an easy-to-see, real world example.

> It's plain to see that eating a factory cheeseburger does indeed cause this ill

I'm very confused by your plan of action... shame the general public until they stop eating meat saturated by antibiotics?

In your plan, how many people will you need to deter in order to make a difference? Will the agricultural industry suddenly stop using antibiotics because a hundered thousand people stop eating at McDonnalds? Two million people?

Will your plan be able to get enough people to stop eating meat so that the agricultural industry notices and stops deforestation or other unethical practices? If they do, will it happen before global warming (caused mostly by the agricultural industry) becomes irreversible?

My comment might read like an excuse to you, but to me your comments read like someone who is very naive to the ways of the world.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#46

Post by robotresearcher »

robotkilla wrote: post #32
jMyles wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds cruel, but I think we need to call people out when they eat factory meat.

I'm actually tired of the "blame the general public" argument. Blame the agricultural industry for this. I'm not going to take the blame for deforestation or lack of fresh water every time I eat a cheesburger, nor am I going to assume blame for pollution when I drive my car. Unless billions of people change within the next few years (which is so unrealistic that I feel comfortable saying it won't happen) then my indi…

final edit: I withdraw the comment below since the analogy is too inflammatory and I certainly don't intend to accuse the parent poster of racism. That's not cool or helpful. I'll leave it up so the replies make sense.

How about this quote from Ghandi instead:

“If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. ... We need not wait to see what others do.”

withdrawn original post:

----------

Your position transposed 50 years back in time:

"I'm actually tired of the "blame the general public" argument. Blame industry for this. I'm not going to take the blame for racism every time I discriminate against a person for being non-white, nor am I going to assume blame when I promote a man over a better qualified woman. Unless billions of people change within the next few years (which is so unrealistic that I feel comfortable saying it won't happen) then my individual do-gooder actions will only bring self-satisfaction, not real change. Blaming the every-man for this stuff is a cop out. Corporations are to blame. Real change will only come about through government (semi-likely) or self-regulation within industries (very unlikely)."

edit: replies below are furious that I equated racism with factory meat. This misses the point completely. They are not the same at all. The point is that industry and government follow popular sentiment and not the other way around. Corporations will sell you what you will buy. Stop buying it and they will offer you an alternative.

If you buy an disproportionately polluting product, you are polluting. You can't avoid that by saying 'everyone else is doing it, I have no choice'. When racism was institutionalized, you had a choice to go along with it or not. You had, and have, personal responsibility independent of everyone else.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#47

Post by TeMPOraL »

jMyles wrote: post #35
tptacek wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the isomorphism between catalytic converters and animal protein, but there's a pretty big difference between requiring people to pay more for cars and telling them they can't buy chicken at Aldi anymore. I think shaming people for buying cheap meat is a terrible strategy that will backfire. What needs to change are the regulations. When antibiotics are banned from the food supply, the market will discover other…

tptacek, It seems to me that, in every thread, you find a way to dream that more "regulations" will solve all of the social ills of the US and beyond. The agri-industrial complex is perhaps the clearest example that the powerful among the regulated will find a way to be the regulators. What more needs to happen to clarify this for you?

Regulations are a right tool for the job here. What would be a non-regulatory approach? Let the market decide? The market decided; it doesn't give a flying damn about things like loss of antibiotics for human healthcare; people want their cheap meat, the market delivers. If it involves overusing antibiotics, so be it.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#48

Post by cup »

cbeach wrote: post #34

Studies show that immigration, sadly, is linked to the spread of antibiotic-resistant diseases. Example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25418572/ Immigrant hotspots in London now have tuberculosis rates higher than Iraq and Rwanda. 80% of cases are people born abroad, and some are antibiotic-resistant. This is a disease we thought we'd erradicated: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34637968 The U.K. h…

Bringing up immigration in a conversation about antibiotic resistance, knowing what we know about animal farming practices is ridiculous.

An analogy is like complaining about one leaking faucet in a conversation about drought when everyone is watering their garden.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#49

Post by TeMPOraL »

jMyles wrote: post #33
tptacek wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not suggesting that antibiotics in meat are a good thing, but I am pointing out the reality that antibiotic-free meat is a luxury item.

antibiotic-free meat is a luxury item. Unless you hunt.

It's not a sustainable solution... wait, scratch that. Factory farming is not a sustainable solution, hunting is not even in the same ballpark as any viable solution to providing as much people as we have with regular meat meals.

And then even if, you'd have a resurgence of people sick and dying from parasites and other stuff you catch from improperly handled meat.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#50

Post by cbeach »

cbeach wrote: post #34

Studies show that immigration, sadly, is linked to the spread of antibiotic-resistant diseases. Example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25418572/ Immigrant hotspots in London now have tuberculosis rates higher than Iraq and Rwanda. 80% of cases are people born abroad, and some are antibiotic-resistant. This is a disease we thought we'd erradicated: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34637968 The U.K. h…

The post went from 1, 2, then 3 votes, down to 1, zero and then -1. Interesting.

I thought Hacker News might be the kind of forum where an argument backed with facts and sources (including peer reviewed papers) might be enough to break through tribal leftwing suppression of politically incorrect opinions. Evidently not.

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