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The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

nytimes.com

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Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#81

Post by cableshaft »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #59
CyberDildonics wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence do you have for your assertion that public schools would cost $50k a year?

I've edited it down to $25K. I was thinking of 25 year estimates I've read, rather than 10 year estimates. In-state public 4-year tuition averages $9K or so right now, plus housing. In ten years this number will likely double or at least grow 150%, if the 5% growth rate continues to hold. If the Fed's monetary policy continues to push up interest rates, though, who knows how much more it might increase during that ti…

Illinois State, a public university (and my alma mater), is currently citing $28k per year for total expenses (including room/board and personal expenses) for someone who lives on campus.

Tuition by itself is only $14k, but that's not a student's only expense. 16 years ago, tuition was less than $6k per year. If it matched inflation, tuition should be less than $9k right now. $14k is beyond ridiculous.

https://financialaid.illinoisstate.edu/paying/cost/table-gro...

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#82

Post by liquidise »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #33

It's quite likely that by the time my 11-year-old hits 18, private universities will cost over $100,000 per year (tuition plus fees, housing, and food plan), and public schools will be $25K [EDITED orig. $50K] (plus or minus, depending on state subsidies and other funding such as corporate donations). While the university experience is undoubtedly a valuable one for the 18-22 age range, with tremendous intellectual a…

I agree with getting the US Gov out of the loan business, but i think we the market to react, and it has begun to.

For many professions, colleges can be substituted by trade schools. We are already seeing this surge in software, and i think we can expect the trend to move into other verticals. At some point, and for some majors this has already happened, a BS/BA stands to lose you money over a lifetime.

At a point, college is no longer fiscally viable. In these cases, a cheaper, more targeted approach is highly marketable.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#83

Post by ThrustVectoring »

cassieramen wrote: post #5

This article hints at schools inability to justify their ever increasing prices. Why is tuition continuing to rise so much faster than inflation? Is this simple supply and demand? Government backed loans create infinite supply to anyone who wants them? How can not for profit schools justify gauging their students?

There's several overlapping causes.

1. Services in general don't benefit from productivity improvements like goods do. As productivity goes up, services tend to get more expensive in terms of physical goods. Education is a service (as is health care, which is also out-pacing inflation).

2. Saving is extraordinarily difficult on a national and generational scale. Outside of saving easy-to-extract natural resources (oil) for later, basically the only other option is to make the next generation promise to make things later. This is why the lending standards are like they are for student and home loans - the economic pressures of retirement planning demand it.

3. Education is a positional good - you only need a degree for entry level jobs because you're competing against degree holders. Since we're getting better at providing absolute goods for our society, more resources are getting freed up to chase positional goods.

4. A good chunk of the price increases are getting made up with corresponding scholarships and need-based awards. Universities are less trying to gouge all their students, and more realizing that they can pull much more money from higher-income students. This is especially true for Ivy League and other prestigious schools.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#84

Post by [deleted] »

jenshoop wrote: post #23
crabasa wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Infinite supply of loans. Dept of Ed isn't even allowed to deny a loan to a person. 2. Culture since the Clinton era of "everyone should go to college". Massive cultural stigma for those who don't. 3. Colleges continue to justify costs based on lifetime earnings delta of people with degrees. Sadly, this data is backwards-looking and not indicative of what today's students should expect. The most heinous thing thou…

Spot on. There's also been an increasing competitive push between universities to deliver "country club-esque" experiences to students, which further drives up cost. (Separately, let's not forget about the chaos of the educational publishing industry and the insane price points they command for modestly updated editions each year.) But I think items 1 and 2 above -- and a lack of education about what loans are and th…

[deleted]

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#85

Post by kuschku »

Shivetya wrote: post #66
eanzenberg wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The gov't will give you a loan, without doing any diligence on your ability to repay, but make it impossible to discharge your debt if you go bankrupt. No due diligence.. guaranteed loan.. cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. Makes sense to me. If the gov't could discriminate on who it loans to for risk assessment then that's a different story.

that plus they don't necessarily restrict the loans with regards to the education you are receiving. it is one thing to go into a field that is experiencing good growth it is another to enter one that is saturated or quickly saturating. It has always been my belief that if government is going to provide loans it should set limits on the cost of the education it is taking the risk for. It already sets limits on medica…

In Germany, it’s simple:

1. If your parents earn enough to finance you studying, you won’t get a loan

2. The loan is limited to 800$ a month

3. If you fail too many courses, the loan is cancelled.

But:

4. You only have to pay back in months in which you earn over 30k€ per year

This allows the loans to be a lot less risky.

I’d argue this is a much better system than what I read about the US tuition system, especially for the students.

(Obviously, the large supply of free governmentally paid universities help drive the price down, too.)

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#86

Post by muzz »

tzs wrote: post #68
cassieramen wrote: post #5

This article hints at schools inability to justify their ever increasing prices. Why is tuition continuing to rise so much faster than inflation? Is this simple supply and demand? Government backed loans create infinite supply to anyone who wants them? How can not for profit schools justify gauging their students?

> Why is tuition continuing to rise so much faster than inflation? Is this simple supply and demand? Government backed loans create infinite supply to anyone who wants them? I'm not convinced government backed loans have much to do with it. Here's a table comparing Stanford tuition growth to inflation over periods of 10 years. Each row represents the 10 years ending in the year given in the first column. Second colum…

Stanford tuition for students from median-income families: $0

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#87

Post by relkor »

kevindeasis wrote: post #39

I'm still waiting for a dramatic disruption of the college/post-secondary industry. I hope it comes really soon, but I'm starting to doubt if it'll come within the next 5 years. I think it's going to take lots of people to disrupt education especially since the government will get involve. I'm starting to feel that some courses in college/university isn't worth that much money. Like a 50,000 degree that has lectures…

You do not have to wait 5 years, I am working on an MVP to directly compete with private, public, and degree mill schools. Expect dramatically lower costs in the short term as we landgrab.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#88

Post by whichfawkes »

crabasa wrote: post #77
tzs wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is tuition continuing to rise so much faster than inflation? Is this simple supply and demand? Government backed loans create infinite supply to anyone who wants them? I'm not convinced government backed loans have much to do with it. Here's a table comparing Stanford tuition growth to inflation over periods of 10 years. Each row represents the 10 years ending in the year given in the first column. Second colum…

You've picked a very unfair data set. Stanford is one of the top universities in the country and has a $22B endowment [1]. The could choose to simply make tuition free if they really wanted to. Stanford optimizes everything they do (including pricing) to attract the best and brightest. You're also only looking at cost, which is only half of the equation. You also need to scrutinize lifetime earnings of graduates. For…

How is increasing the price going to attract the best and brightest?
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