Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 182 posts

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#141

Post by aianus »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #41
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are traffic scenarios where it's too dangerous to stick with the legal speed limits.

I was about to downvote you, since I think this statemment is, well, moronic. Instead I kindly ask you to elaborate on just one situation, where exceeding the speed limit avoids danger. Edited to add : To be clear: Speeding up upon overtaking doesn't count. If you need to do that you should not have overtaken in the first place, since it was obviously dangerous.

> Speeding up upon overtaking doesn't count. If you need to do that you should not have overtaken in the first place, since it was obviously dangerous.

No matter how fast a truck is driving, I don't want to be anywhere near it while driving my motorcycle. Those tires randomly explode (I've seen it happen multiple times) and when a piece hits you, you're dead. I pass them ASAP, no matter how fast I have to go to do it.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#142

Post by arjie »

aianus wrote: post #17
rdtsc wrote: post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

Having lived in Romania and Vietnam, you learn to appreciate the efficiency of just paying the bribe and getting on with your life. For example, if I get caught speeding I can bribe a cop for like $20 in Eastern Europe or Asia versus losing $1000s in Canada between fines and insurance premium increases. I personally find it a lot less stressful than living in Canada where every time I see a cop I get a little adrenal…

In India, I hated interaction with the police because they'd try to shake me down for all sorts of reasons, multiple times a month. In America, I have only ever interacted with a policeman thrice in three years, and on every occasion he or she asked me if I needed help.

One time I set off the fire alarm and they sent emergency services over. They came, investigated the situation, saw that I was just a terrible cook, gave me some advice and left.

If India had the same notifying fire alarms, everyone would have them disabled because the probability of having to pay a bribe would be exactly 1.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#143

Post by MichaelGG »

jacquesm wrote: post #24
aianus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Romania and Vietnam, you learn to appreciate the efficiency of just paying the bribe and getting on with your life. For example, if I get caught speeding I can bribe a cop for like $20 in Eastern Europe or Asia versus losing $1000s in Canada between fines and insurance premium increases. I personally find it a lot less stressful than living in Canada where every time I see a cop I get a little adrenal…

So, do you speed in Canada?

Everyone seems to go 10-20kmh over depending on the road, at least in southern Ontario. On the 407 it's closer to 30 over and if I stayed at 100 it'd be rather uncomfortable (and after being away for a while, I woulda sworn it was 120). At 50 they can roadside impound and suspend license.

The only point the GP has is that corruption is the oil of bureaucracy. In Guatemala, for instance, they started this whole anti-corruption drive a bit ago. Didn't really help; the president and vice president are now in jail for their part in a massive theft of taxes.

But for the regular people? Importing a container? Good luck. Before, you could pay the clerks to work overtime and move you to the top of the pile after 5pm. Now they've got all these annoying receipt systems so you have no way of doing this unless you're a serious player and turn a ton of people. Who wins here?

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#144

Post by pc86 »

aianus wrote: post #139
pc86 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Speeding is endemic in the US as well, and the penalties are onerous for pretty much everyone but the well-off. No, they're not. Perhaps in some states but not on average. I'm in Pennsylvania so can only use those numbers.[0] There is the base fine (which can be doubled if you're in a work zone or an area with posted signs to that effect) and surcharges. Fine (25-55mph/40-90km/hr zone): $45-95 Fine (65 mph/105km/hr…

In Ontario going 161 km/h anywhere is automatically considered "stunt driving" and carries a $10,000 fine, roadside vehicle impound, license suspension, and up to 6 months in prison. Edit: s/street racing/stunt driving/

I've heard of a concept of "criminal speeding" (e.g. going so fast they arrest you instead of give you a ticket) but it doesn't look like my state has such a law. However "Reckless Driving" seems to be much more lax and requires only "willful and wanton" disregard for the safety of others. $200 summary fine (again 2x in construction/posted areas).

Like most enforcement in the US, there seems to be a great deal of discretion in what the police officer can actually do to you, everything from a warning to a large ticket ($475 for my example w/ a reckless driving citation, which will also probably cause you to lose your car insurance).

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#145

Post by jsudhams »

A true good at heart multi-billionaire CAN change India/ Indians and drive 1/5th of the humans to be good example of future world. Which will bring lot of stability to the world and make Africa and other poor countries to have belief in "good system". Indians are are very good at idolizing and following a person. Like Gandhi or today's Sachin or whoever. There is lot of people praying if god will send a person to change India. While corrupt to the core... A majority, i would say may be 70% (based on my village and relations) are willing to put up efforts to be completely not corrupt as long as justice and police system work, but now justice system is very questionable..so any multi billionaire or to be billionaire's via start-up , please consider donating money to this... with number of people in India and willingness to study... if you invest in changing this country you pretty much can change the world....otherwise we will continue to do BPO work and Rem Infra Mgmt work and support your business irrespective of what happens to us and our country....

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#146

Post by megablast »

roddux wrote: post #74
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to say that too, but in corrupt countries, you'll get fined for speeding whether you were speeding or not - and expected to bribe the 'officer' regardless. It's not paying a policeman something then and there that's the problem - for you it'd become the fine for speeding - but it's having to pay without having done anything wrong. It's the power abuse associated with it that's wrong.

This happened to me in Vietnam. A police officer pulled over me and a friend as we rode past, then came up with a story about us having 'incorrect papers'. Later found out from the owner of the hostel that the same thing had happened to most of his guests for the entire season!

To ride in Vietnam you do need a Vietnamese drivers license, so he was not wrong.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#147

Post by djrogers »

eitally wrote: post #132
jzwinck wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun cultural note for those reading this who may not know: a "lakh" is just 100,000 of anything, in India, Sri Lanka, and Nepal. People do not speak or think in terms of "millions" regardless of the magnitude, it would be "20 lakh" not "2 million" even when spoken in an English sentence. You might sometimes hear "half a lakh" but less often "a quarter lakh" than you would "a quarter million."

Fun addendum to this cultural note: the fact that things are based in hundred thousands leads to weird comma structural in written numerals. http://www.fullstopindia.com/indian-number-system-made-easy/ For example: 1,00,000 = 1 lakh 1,05,000 = 1 lakh + 5,000 rupees = 105,000 rupees

According to your link, your first example should be 10 lakh

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#148

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #92
CaptainZapp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to downvote you, since I think this statemment is, well, moronic. Instead I kindly ask you to elaborate on just one situation, where exceeding the speed limit avoids danger. Edited to add : To be clear: Speeding up upon overtaking doesn't count. If you need to do that you should not have overtaken in the first place, since it was obviously dangerous.

Safety in traffic depends, among other things, on the relative speed between you and the cars around you. When this relative speed gets out of a certain range, you and/or those around you are forced to make dangerous maneuvers increasing the risk of collision. With this in mind, think about scenarios where the average speed is above the legal limit: highways, rural roads with no known speed cams, etc. Now imagine hea…

Rural roads you have to be careful speeding because people walk on them and tractors drive on them, and sometimes there are horses. If you're driving the limit and there's a bunch of people behind you, either (a) they can deal with it or (b) you can pull over and let them pass.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#149

Post by johnchristopher »

ceejayoz wrote: post #93
johnchristopher wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair it's only a theory. I was told the same by a friend of mine who is a jurist regarding judges salaries that are high on purpose to prevent corruption. "That's the theory" he said. Western Europe.

I doubt it does much to prevent corruption. You see multi-billionaires working hard to influence tax laws to keep a few more percent of their income despite having more money than they could ever possibly spend.

I am pretty sure no matter how high the salary you can't prevent flattering the ego as a mean to corrupt someone: "It's not about the money, it's about who I am and I am important enough to them they need to corrupt me. They need me. They owe me now.". Or something along those lines.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#150

Post by wavefunction »

zinghaboi wrote: post #84

Americans need to be much more worried about corruption than India. At least it is illegal in India.

Corruption is illegal in America as well. Not all versions of corruption but the majority is not legal nor is it tolerated, in general. There is still old-boy corruption but I'm not sure that doesn't happen anywhere.
Post reply on HN