The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam • Hacker News Board

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#91

Post by coldcode » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:19 PM UTC

jeremyjh wrote: post #81

marcosdumay wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And parts of the developed world, like the US, are just as corrupt (or more corrupt) than India, only in different and potentially even more damaging ways, like having an election system captured by corporations. I'll just have to disagree. The one thing every single Brazilian comments after traveling to the US or Western Europe is how honest and rule-based everything is. You do have a corruption problem in the US,…

All of our politicians in the U.S. are for sale through perfectly legal means. What we don't tolerate is corruption in the bureaucracies that actually run the state day to day. This is the crucial difference.

Corruption also doesn't have to be about money. Access to power can also have a big payoff for a US politician. Someone with money wants something to be done; help a politician raise huge money to ensure they get elected, in return they get the office and the someone gets a friend in high places. With Citizens United its now easy to do.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#92

Post by stefantalpalaru » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:27 PM UTC

CaptainZapp wrote: post #41

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are traffic scenarios where it's too dangerous to stick with the legal speed limits.

I was about to downvote you, since I think this statemment is, well, moronic. Instead I kindly ask you to elaborate on just one situation, where exceeding the speed limit avoids danger. Edited to add : To be clear: Speeding up upon overtaking doesn't count. If you need to do that you should not have overtaken in the first place, since it was obviously dangerous.

Safety in traffic depends, among other things, on the relative speed between you and the cars around you. When this relative speed gets out of a certain range, you and/or those around you are forced to make dangerous maneuvers increasing the risk of collision.

With this in mind, think about scenarios where the average speed is above the legal limit: highways, rural roads with no known speed cams, etc. Now imagine heavy traffic and only one participant slowing down to the legal limit.

Here's one US citizen's experience driving on highways in Italy, where I live, describing what safe driving looks like here: https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-drive-above-the-speed-li...

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#93

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:28 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #82

rahimnathwani wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is one of the reasons top politicians are paid so well." Really? That would be a fine reason, but it may have more to do with the amount of power and influence they wield, even over those who determine their salaries.

To be fair it's only a theory. I was told the same by a friend of mine who is a jurist regarding judges salaries that are high on purpose to prevent corruption. "That's the theory" he said. Western Europe.

I doubt it does much to prevent corruption. You see multi-billionaires working hard to influence tax laws to keep a few more percent of their income despite having more money than they could ever possibly spend.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#94

Post by nashashmi » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:28 PM UTC

yeureka wrote: post #38

rdtsc wrote: post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

I too hate corruption. It's the main reason why the south of Europe is doing so badly. If corruption was lower where I'm from, Portugal, we could easily double our GDP. Corruption makes people miserable and not only the ones forced to pay the bribes. It's like an unwritten and arbitrary set of rules that turns simple transactions into negotiations. This not only saps energy and time but it is also deeply unfair as yo…

I hate to put the blame on to any "one" reason for Southern Europe doing badly, but I came across an article that probably gave a better reason why there was so much difference between North and South Europe, and the theory it presents is religious difference between Protestantism and Catholicism. Protestant (read the bible) & Catholic (follow the pope). This gave the north literary rise, and literary history, and advanced them above their southern neighbors.

Corruption could be fallout of illiteracy, or maybe, lack of corruption could be a fallout of advancing literacy.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#95

Post by distances » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:29 PM UTC

WaylonKenning wrote: post #53

random_coder wrote: post #23

As an Indian I often wonder, the real question is not why India is so corrupt(esp. at the lower levels of bureaucracy), rather how come certain countries have zero corruption at those levels? Perhaps I'm too pessimistic about human nature.

As a New Zealander, any form of corruption is unacceptable. It's just not in the DNA of being a good New Zealander to be corrupt. Therefore, there's great social pressure to not be corrupt. Being corrupt is not celebrated, and I wouldn't show off or discuss it here.

Everywhere in Northern Europe getting labelled as corrupt would be a huge stigma, too. Just not something that can be done.

This applies to direct corruption. There are different, structural kinds of corruption though, like "old boy networks" where business may get handled via personal relations. While still damaging for the society, it probably isn't even illegal in most cases.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#96

Post by LoSboccacc » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:35 PM UTC

yeureka wrote: post #38

rdtsc wrote: post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

I too hate corruption. It's the main reason why the south of Europe is doing so badly. If corruption was lower where I'm from, Portugal, we could easily double our GDP. Corruption makes people miserable and not only the ones forced to pay the bribes. It's like an unwritten and arbitrary set of rules that turns simple transactions into negotiations. This not only saps energy and time but it is also deeply unfair as yo…

+1

Italian here. It's not just corruption here but almost every social interaction is built as an exchange of favours. From having a job to not getting screwed from the auto shop, you live off a network of people owing you and you get in their circles by owing them back. It's a very powerful system because everyone understands the honour it's based on, you can't track it because it's immaterial and it's so widespread that you get huge pressure to cave in and become part of the system.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#97

Post by stefantalpalaru » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:40 PM UTC

JimmyM wrote: post #68

1ris wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not deserve to be downvoted. Driving too slow is as dangerous as driving to fast, or more dangerous. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

I think it has likely been downvoted by people from countries that do not speed. I have only ever seen Americans and Canadians talking about the necessity to speed to keep up with the flow of traffic (and they have a higher rate of fatal RTAs per 100,000 than most Western European countries – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r... – Canada is close to Italy, a country that is well known in We…

> Italy, a country that is well known in Western Europe for terrifying traffic

Is it? The death toll is average to low compared to the rest of Europe: http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/pdf/gis/mapcare_fa...

And it's low compared to the rest of the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#98

Post by mikeash » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:42 PM UTC

saint_fiasco wrote: post #80

balazsdavid987 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound a bit harsh, but as someone not from the US, I was surprised that these things count when it comes to getting an admission. Does any particular hobby makes someone a better person? Or a 20-year old without a transformative life experience isn't capable of achiveing the same things? These factors are way to subjective.

My guess is that the US used to have objective criteria but because University admissions are so competitive everyone studied just for the test and Universities filled with people who were very good at "book-learning" at the expense of everything else. They wanted students to be more varied, more well-rounded individuals instead of robots who memorize books. So naturally, they started testing for holistic well-rounde…

I always thought it was so they could reject undesirables (wrong ancestry and such) without having to give the real reason.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#99

Post by thallukrish » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:42 PM UTC

Most of the corruption done by people in India are driven ultimately by politicians (via bureaucrats). These politicians need the money to fund their election which is about giving it to the voters (yes, money is transferred to the illiterate folks during elections). Without money it is impossible to get elected to even a small position. So it indirectly hinges on the illiteracy levels. If people are educated enough to earn their own living without going for freebies and money which again is a Government budget and policy matter which is controlled by politicians. It is a vicious cycle.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#100

Post by khrist » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:55 PM UTC

I think this sums it up "Vyapam appears to be a vast societal swindle – one that reveals the hollowness at the heart of practically every Indian state institution: inadequate schools, a crushing shortage of meaningful jobs, a corrupt government, a cynical middle class happy to cheat the system to aid their own children, a compromised and inept police force and a judiciary incapable of enforcing its laws."