China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps • Hacker News Board

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#41

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 8:17 AM UTC

marshray wrote: post #23

Back in the early 90's (in the US) I had a friend who was a college student from China. In the common area of her dorm there was a huge wall-size Rand-McNally map of the world. We were looking it over. "There's China" I said. "And there's Taiwan." "You know Taiwan is really not that big." she said. "What do you mean?" "Map makers show it larger than it really is in order to exaggerate its importance." I was a little…

It's a nice example of how powerful media exposure is. Think of the persons brain as polluted by an influence solely geared towards making their brain an extension of a political apparatus to the point where they can no longer tell reality and polluted input apart. It is very hard to maintain objectivity in todays media rich world.

You too probably have pollution like that in your head - and so do I - and just like this person we are unable to recognize it for what it is. Objectivity is very precious and extremely hard to find.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#42

Post by c3534l » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 8:24 AM UTC

reddytowns wrote: post #32

marshray wrote: post #23

Back in the early 90's (in the US) I had a friend who was a college student from China. In the common area of her dorm there was a huge wall-size Rand-McNally map of the world. We were looking it over. "There's China" I said. "And there's Taiwan." "You know Taiwan is really not that big." she said. "What do you mean?" "Map makers show it larger than it really is in order to exaggerate its importance." I was a little…

I asked my Taiwanese friend about this and she said when she was a kid, Taiwanese maps would have a larger Taiwan compared to China. She said it was to make Taiwan seem more important. So there is at least some truth to what she said

That doesn't demonstrate there is truth to it, only that you found someone else who believed the absurdity.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#43

Post by mahranch » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 8:31 AM UTC

est wrote: post #18

gherkin0 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: how exactly would a foreign "internet company" "lobby the Chinese government?" Google literally had to take their ball and leave China at one point because China wouldn't compromise on a lot of things.

First of all, The Google case is a long story. It boils down to Google HQ, especially the three founders, didn't grant much power to local team. I remember there was a news report that one of Google China's partners was trying to lobby a chinese official by gifting gifting the latest iPad, Brin heard that and shutdown that operation completely. While I appreciate the moral high ground and respect FCPA laws, the probl…

> It boils down to Google HQ, especially the three founders, didn't grant much power to local team

You sure it was that, and not China trying repeatedly (and successfully) stealing Google's source code? (Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/china-google-idUSN03258738201...)

And then hacking Google again to commit corporate espionage and steal U.S industrial secrets? (Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/security-experts-china...) Or any number of other attacks, backstabbing or a lack of cooperation from China's government?

Google left China because it just wasn't worth it to them to do business there anymore. Especially when your own research into the security breach shows the host country's government is facilitating the attacks on your company. I'd leave too... Then again, I wouldn't have been there in the first place.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#44

Post by yabun » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 8:45 AM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #27

marshray wrote: post #23

Back in the early 90's (in the US) I had a friend who was a college student from China. In the common area of her dorm there was a huge wall-size Rand-McNally map of the world. We were looking it over. "There's China" I said. "And there's Taiwan." "You know Taiwan is really not that big." she said. "What do you mean?" "Map makers show it larger than it really is in order to exaggerate its importance." I was a little…

It's not unprecedented for entire continents not having the correct size on a map. http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/cartograph... http://thetruesize.com/

http://www.progonos.com/furuti/MapProj/Normal/ProjPoly/projP... These maps aren't too bad.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#45

Post by seanmcdirmid » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 9:03 AM UTC

nflknfk wrote: post #36

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UW has never had that high percentage of Chinese students; from the demographics report: http://www.washington.edu/omad/files/2015/02/2015-01-09-UW-S... So they (Asians, other) are at 21.5% in 2014/15. Note that international has its own separate slice, at 14.7%, that isn't broken down. So...that means all that 21.5% are American, possibly of Chinese descent, which is far away from Chinese nationals. UW is a commuter…

What many of them do, including my former roommate, is to move over here during their sophomore or junior years of high school so they can achieve resident status in the state of Washington and get cheap college tuition. So going by those numbers you found, the true percentage is probably between 25% and 30%.

Something else is going on. Either they are on an F-1 visa, paying out-of-state rates, they are illegal (doubtful these days), or...they have green cards (or even have citizenship). You can't pay in-state tuition on a student visa. If they have green cards, they are technically immigrants (though still Chinese nationals, for sure), and are on the hook to pay taxes in the US on worldwide income. (other visas can get you resident status, but none are related to education, perhaps if they are really rich they could get investor visas...but then money would be the least of their problems).

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#46

Post by rtb » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 10:12 AM UTC

empressplay wrote: post #38

wnevets wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unprecedented for entire continents not having the correct size on a map. http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/cartograph... http://thetruesize.com/

That "true size" website is wildly inaccurate. I'm puzzled what the motivation is for that.

[citation needed]

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#47

Post by frobozz » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 10:13 AM UTC

If China "uses historical maps" like the one illustrated, to justify its claim, does that mean they think Hong Kong should still be a British Dependent Territory?

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#48

Post by mahouse » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 10:48 AM UTC

_RPM wrote: post #8

As soon as I went to the page, it was hijacked by a huge advertisement. It literally loaded the article, then it disappeared and a huge advertisement showed up.

Use an ad blocker.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#49

Post by haylem » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 11:00 AM UTC

fungi wrote: post #15

Several years ago the Chinese government was confiscating lonely planet travel guides at the border http://www.theage.com.au/news/news/hide-the-guide-warns-lone...

Indeed. I studied in China for a year (in 2005) and I remember that amongst the recommendations for travelers, one was to avoid showing your travel guides - or at least the maps - as most would raise eyebrows. I remember covering Taiwan on the map with my hand a few times when asking other college students about recommendations for holiday travels, so they wouldn't pick up on it.

On the other hand, it's not like it was grounds for paranoia either: that was usually a good conversation starter on the train. There's a wide disconnect between what the government says it will enforce, what it actually enforces, and what people actually think.

You could get into some weird conversations, but I generally did not come across much animosity because of these maps. Awkwardness, at worst. If there was any, you'd simply back out and apologize for the map being inaccurate.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#50

Post by kristofferR » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 11:12 AM UTC

csours wrote: post #21

jpatokal wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The offsets are not random, but algorithmic, using the GCJ-02 datum. Of course, legal access to use the GCJ-02 algorithms requires that you kowtow to the Chinese government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_dat...

> It uses an encryption algorithm[13] which adds apparently random offsets to both the latitude and longitude, with the alleged goal of improving national security. You're both right! It uses reversible randomness apparently. Wonder how hard the algorithm and seed(s) are to figure out

https://wuyongzheng.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/china-map-devia...

There are now many OSS-tools that convert between the global coordinate system standard (WGS-84) and the Chinese deliberately incompatible coordinate systems (GCJ-02 and BD-09).