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China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

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Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#21

Post by csours »

jpatokal wrote: post #13
marme wrote: post #4

Another big thing with china is that they consider all maps and satellite pics to be state secrets that require strict approval before being published. If you ever look on google maps, the satellite pics dont match up up the maps pics. Most are off by at least 100 ft and that is because all the map data china releases has the coordinates randomly changed by a random amount in a random direction and it is different fo…

The offsets are not random, but algorithmic, using the GCJ-02 datum. Of course, legal access to use the GCJ-02 algorithms requires that you kowtow to the Chinese government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_dat...

> It uses an encryption algorithm[13] which adds apparently random offsets to both the latitude and longitude, with the alleged goal of improving national security.

You're both right! It uses reversible randomness apparently. Wonder how hard the algorithm and seed(s) are to figure out

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#22

Post by est »

namelezz wrote: post #20
est wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Internet companies could consider a budget to lobby chinese government. Facebook, Google ramp up their efforts to lobby DC after CISPA.

Are you talking about Chinese Internet companies? You are joking right?

What's wrong with Chinese Internet companies?

If you mean they have unfair advantage, you can compare jd.com with amazon.cn.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#23

Post by marshray »

Back in the early 90's (in the US) I had a friend who was a college student from China. In the common area of her dorm there was a huge wall-size Rand-McNally map of the world. We were looking it over.

"There's China" I said. "And there's Taiwan."

"You know Taiwan is really not that big." she said.

"What do you mean?"

"Map makers show it larger than it really is in order to exaggerate its importance."

I was a little weirded out by that idea. This girl was pretty intelligent, she seemed to know some math and logical thinking. She was in the process of becoming a CPA.

For better or worse I responded with practical analysis: "How would that even work? You and I could go buy maps right now for navigating ships and airplanes, those would have to be accurate in order to function. We could compare them to this one and if they are noticeably different we could complain and the company that made the map would lose face. Why would Rand-McNally give a shit about the political importance of Taiwan anyway, enough to risk their own credibility?"

"They just do. All map makers do this."

She would not be convinced.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#24

Post by lionyo »

marshray wrote: post #23

Back in the early 90's (in the US) I had a friend who was a college student from China. In the common area of her dorm there was a huge wall-size Rand-McNally map of the world. We were looking it over. "There's China" I said. "And there's Taiwan." "You know Taiwan is really not that big." she said. "What do you mean?" "Map makers show it larger than it really is in order to exaggerate its importance." I was a little…

Could she be referring to different map projections?

https://xkcd.com/977/

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#25

Post by janekm »

marme wrote: post #4

Another big thing with china is that they consider all maps and satellite pics to be state secrets that require strict approval before being published. If you ever look on google maps, the satellite pics dont match up up the maps pics. Most are off by at least 100 ft and that is because all the map data china releases has the coordinates randomly changed by a random amount in a random direction and it is different fo…

It's worth mentioning here that maps inside China don't have this problem, Baidu Maps and Apple Maps (which uses Chinese map data when used in China) for example show accurate GPS position and correlation with satellite images.

It's presumably just typical government inertia at this point... Everyone using maps within China gets accurate maps so not worth the trouble of trying to change the policy.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#26

Post by marshray »

lionyo wrote: post #24
marshray wrote: post #23

Back in the early 90's (in the US) I had a friend who was a college student from China. In the common area of her dorm there was a huge wall-size Rand-McNally map of the world. We were looking it over. "There's China" I said. "And there's Taiwan." "You know Taiwan is really not that big." she said. "What do you mean?" "Map makers show it larger than it really is in order to exaggerate its importance." I was a little…

Could she be referring to different map projections? https://xkcd.com/977/

Well, I'm pretty sure it was a mercator projection, which would distort more-Northern mainland China even more larger relative to less-Northern Taiwan.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#27

Post by wnevets »

marshray wrote: post #23

Back in the early 90's (in the US) I had a friend who was a college student from China. In the common area of her dorm there was a huge wall-size Rand-McNally map of the world. We were looking it over. "There's China" I said. "And there's Taiwan." "You know Taiwan is really not that big." she said. "What do you mean?" "Map makers show it larger than it really is in order to exaggerate its importance." I was a little…

It's not unprecedented for entire continents not having the correct size on a map.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/cartograph... http://thetruesize.com/

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#28

Post by nflknfk »

marshray wrote: post #23

Back in the early 90's (in the US) I had a friend who was a college student from China. In the common area of her dorm there was a huge wall-size Rand-McNally map of the world. We were looking it over. "There's China" I said. "And there's Taiwan." "You know Taiwan is really not that big." she said. "What do you mean?" "Map makers show it larger than it really is in order to exaggerate its importance." I was a little…

Similar experience(s):

I went to the University of Washington, at which an extremely high percentage of the students were Chinese (I want to say between 30% and 40%). Taiwan and the South China Sea are definite hotbutton issues. Once during an international relations lecture of about 200 people, the professor made the mistake of mentioning Taiwan which caused one of the Chinese students to stand up and begin talking very loudly (shouting?) at the professor for what must have been a good three minutes, informing him that Taiwan is not the real China. It was pretty painful to watch considering he was one of the most senior professors within that department, and very well versed on the subject.

Then I also had a Chinese roommate freshman year and there were always oddities like "those people at Tiananmen had it coming." Lots of little things that added up over time.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#29

Post by marshray »

nflknfk wrote: post #28
marshray wrote: post #23

Back in the early 90's (in the US) I had a friend who was a college student from China. In the common area of her dorm there was a huge wall-size Rand-McNally map of the world. We were looking it over. "There's China" I said. "And there's Taiwan." "You know Taiwan is really not that big." she said. "What do you mean?" "Map makers show it larger than it really is in order to exaggerate its importance." I was a little…

Similar experience(s): I went to the University of Washington, at which an extremely high percentage of the students were Chinese (I want to say between 30% and 40%). Taiwan and the South China Sea are definite hotbutton issues. Once during an international relations lecture of about 200 people, the professor made the mistake of mentioning Taiwan which caused one of the Chinese students to stand up and begin talking…

Yep. On another occasion I demonstrated knowledge of a lesser-known fact about the Taiwan dispute and this girl was really happy with me. :-)

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#30

Post by jordanb »

marshray wrote: post #23

Back in the early 90's (in the US) I had a friend who was a college student from China. In the common area of her dorm there was a huge wall-size Rand-McNally map of the world. We were looking it over. "There's China" I said. "And there's Taiwan." "You know Taiwan is really not that big." she said. "What do you mean?" "Map makers show it larger than it really is in order to exaggerate its importance." I was a little…

Isn't it odd that a bigger landmass confers more importance to her? I guess by her reckoning Russia is the most important country in the world, followed by Canada?
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