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China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

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Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#11
post #7

Were there any issues with people having/using openstreetmaps? I believe they're just ignoring the law and provide maps without the offset, but I haven't heard of china blocking access to the project.

Oh, they'll block it if it gets any sort of traction. Right now OpenStreetMap is probably not even worth the CPU cycles it takes to add it to the GFW blacklist.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#13
post #4

Another big thing with china is that they consider all maps and satellite pics to be state secrets that require strict approval before being published. If you ever look on google maps, the satellite pics dont match up up the maps pics. Most are off by at least 100 ft and that is because all the map data china releases has the coordinates randomly changed by a random amount in a random direction and it is different fo…

The offsets are not random, but algorithmic, using the GCJ-02 datum. Of course, legal access to use the GCJ-02 algorithms requires that you kowtow to the Chinese government:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_dat...

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#14
Nowhere near this level, but India is pretty sensitive about maps too.

When entering the country the first "forbidden" item listed on the customs form isn't drugs or other illegal things, it's "Maps and literature where Indian external boundaries have been shown incorrectly".

Of course, I doubt they enforce that, especially since anyone with a phone who has opened Google/Bing/Apple Maps while in a different country probably has the "incorrect" boundaries cached on their phone when they enter.

(we have some border disputes with Pakistan and China)

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#16

China takes this issue seriously because it has government censorship of many kinds of publications, and in international law, maps matter. (A map can indicate acquiescence to another country's territorial claim, so dictatorships that have territorial disputes with other countries censor maps.) There have been submissions to Hacker News about this issue before, and I have commented on those submissions from this stan…

This so-called international law is often repeated online, with no evidence that random consumer maps have ever been used to resolve a dispute.

If official government maps shows a certain boundary it is evidence that the government at some point in time accepted that as fact (or pretended to accept it as fact).

Consumer maps are probably meaningless unless the government or local officials were using them and they had no official maps to contradict the unofficial consumer maps. I vaguely recall some embarrassment in India where officials were using unsanctioned maps (but I can't find a link).

As far as I can tell consumer maps (not used by officials) have never been used in an international court to prove a boundary. They can be, at worst, propaganda. There is not, as far as I can tell, any UN or other international treaty which mandate that any rabdom map is evidence of boundaries.

In the Shebaa farms dispute, for example, Israel and UN officials cited official Lebanese military maps as evidence [0].

tldr; It is enough for China to police official government maps and the use of maps by officials, without confiscating maps tourists bring in ... unless it's all about propaganda to support spurious claims, which of course it is.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebaa_farms

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#17
post #12
post #2

Reason 5,237 why doing buisnees with China is a bad idea.

I think Internet companies could consider a budget to lobby chinese government. Facebook, Google ramp up their efforts to lobby DC after CISPA.

Genuine question: how exactly would a foreign "internet company" "lobby the Chinese government?" Google literally had to take their ball and leave China at one point because China wouldn't compromise on a lot of things.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#18
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Internet companies could consider a budget to lobby chinese government. Facebook, Google ramp up their efforts to lobby DC after CISPA.

Genuine question: how exactly would a foreign "internet company" "lobby the Chinese government?" Google literally had to take their ball and leave China at one point because China wouldn't compromise on a lot of things.

First of all, The Google case is a long story. It boils down to Google HQ, especially the three founders, didn't grant much power to local team. I remember there was a news report that one of Google China's partners was trying to lobby a chinese official by gifting gifting the latest iPad, Brin heard that and shutdown that operation completely. While I appreciate the moral high ground and respect FCPA laws, the problem is that other US companies and non-US companies, can and successfully exploited this chinese "culture" and influenced policy makers.

Secondly, for every hostile Chinese policy, there must be someone benefited. Local Chinese internet giants are actively exploiting every possible way to lobby policies for their own good. US capitals can deploy lobby operations via VIE.

Finally, the thing that troubles me is that after all these years, Google is making a coming back to China[1], I mean wtf? seriously? Many hardcore Google fans in China a disguised by this awful act.

[1] http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/4/9262479/google-china-app-st...

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#19
post #4

Another big thing with china is that they consider all maps and satellite pics to be state secrets that require strict approval before being published. If you ever look on google maps, the satellite pics dont match up up the maps pics. Most are off by at least 100 ft and that is because all the map data china releases has the coordinates randomly changed by a random amount in a random direction and it is different fo…

You can see the effect on this heatmap: http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#15/116.40337/39.96947/gray/b...

There is a "ghost" trail a few meters to the east of the real trail.

Re: China Cracks Down on Politically Incorrect Maps

#20
post #12
post #2

Reason 5,237 why doing buisnees with China is a bad idea.

I think Internet companies could consider a budget to lobby chinese government. Facebook, Google ramp up their efforts to lobby DC after CISPA.

Are you talking about Chinese Internet companies? You are joking right?
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