I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views • Hacker News Board

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#221

Post by rdancer » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 1:49 AM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #98

ecopoesis wrote: post #3

What school denied him? Because if was a public institution, bad on them. But if it was a private university, then that's their right. Feel free to disagree with them, but a private university is allowed to have political views and admit folks to their programs based political views [1]. [1] http://education-law.lawyers.com/school-law/can-private-scho...

Did any school deny him on that basis? From what I read, there is no evidence.

If they brought it up in an interview at all, that means that it was part of their decision. The way he portraits the line of questioning, his having quite narrowly dissenting opinions (that is to say, any own opinions at all) was a dealbreaker.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#222

Post by FussyZeus » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 1:50 AM UTC

dd36 wrote: post #81

FussyZeus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less a generalization of everyone who has a degree being incapable of performing that task (I'd imagine a lot would be able to figure it out, it's not complicated) and more the idea that knowledge which is highly useful such as that is viewed as being "beneath" knowledge such as a thorough understanding of the writings of Socrates. The catch there is that knowing Socrates isn't getting you off the side of the ro…

You had someone be rude to you because you know how to fix a car? As you said, that's a far easier skill to learn than say programming. However, I have never encountered such an attitude and have lived on both coasts. I think people greatly appreciate skilled mechanics, tradesmen, etc. all over the country. The best can usually charge a premium. That's no different on the coasts. I doubt this will be a popular opinio…

> I doubt this will be a popular opinion: Frankly, I think belief in the supernatural should be screenable in an employment application. Maybe it doesn't affect how you think about the world and how you think about solutions to problems but it could. Maybe you're prone to believing in unsupported theories because you've trained your brain to do so in your private life? Maybe you press on with an idea when you shouldn't. Maybe that will effect your business decisions?

As a Libertarian, I wouldn't deny you your right to hire whom you please for whatever reasons.

As a Leader, if you were applying to me for that job, I would take the position of "As long as your code works well and you're willing to work hard, you can go home and worship a flaming bag of dog shit and dance naked around it listening to David Bowie for all the fucks I give about it, just please don't show me pictures." and I would mean it.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#223

Post by isolate » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 1:50 AM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #207

fromMars wrote: post #51

I grew up in a red state, too, and as an atheist, I got tired of being told I was going to hell by peers and forced to pray at school events. As such, I have a lot of Christian friends but, it is understandable that some "intellectuals" are hostile to those with strong religious beliefs given that many with similar beliefs deny scientific concepts like evolution, advocate teaching creationism in schools, and deny the…

It is not any more understandable for you to dismiss a religious person as less intelligent than you than it is for a religious person to assume you're going to hell for being Athiest. Stop trying to justify your prejudices. Two wrongs, etc. etc.

I think you can dismiss them as less sane, however. You don't have to treat wacky beliefs as equally valid alternative viewpoints. There's a lot of totally supernatural stuff religious people believe that didn't / doesn't happen. The moral and community aspects are generally okay.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#224

Post by isolate » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 1:51 AM UTC

fweespeech wrote: post #199

aaronem wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cunts"? Really? And you expect to be taken seriously by grownups? I mean, I was going to ask you why it's not okay to invalidate the experiences of women talking about sexism in tech, but totally okay to invalidate the experiences of people with unpopular beliefs talking about how they've been mistreated on that basis. I don't think I'm going to bother, because I don't see that argument getting anywhere with you --…

> "Cunts"? Really? And you expect to be taken seriously by grownups? I bear a very strong hatred to a handful of specific politicians for very specific reasons I can cite. Would you like a list of people and reasons I'd call them cunt/asshole? Similarly, the fact you took the bait convinces me you honestly are unable to provide evidence of your conclusions on any reasonable scale and are simply unwilling to admit it.…

Personal attacks are not allowed on Hacker News. Either of you.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#225

Post by Retra » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 1:51 AM UTC

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #164

druddha wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a belief. I said "...may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job." Providing a list of Christian scientists does not disprove my statement. Obviously being religious doesn't necessarily mean you will perform at a lower level relative to your peers. But to borrow from Sam Harris, if you met a scientist who openly admitted to believing Elvis is still alive, would you hold the same opinion of them p…

Judging one's work by anything other than the work itself is unscientific.

The purpose of science is to generate correct beliefs about the world. If you believe in nonsense, that's very poor scientific work.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#226

Post by FussyZeus » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 1:56 AM UTC

isolate wrote: post #223

FussyZeus wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not any more understandable for you to dismiss a religious person as less intelligent than you than it is for a religious person to assume you're going to hell for being Athiest. Stop trying to justify your prejudices. Two wrongs, etc. etc.

I think you can dismiss them as less sane, however. You don't have to treat wacky beliefs as equally valid alternative viewpoints. There's a lot of totally supernatural stuff religious people believe that didn't / doesn't happen. The moral and community aspects are generally okay.

My sanity is perfectly fine, thanks, and my beliefs are not beholden to the standard you define as "wacky."

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#227

Post by isolate » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 1:56 AM UTC

Retra wrote: post #225

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging one's work by anything other than the work itself is unscientific.

The purpose of science is to generate correct beliefs about the world. If you believe in nonsense, that's very poor scientific work.

Presumably you can imagine a somewhat stupid robot that does random scientific experiments, generating good beliefs and bad ones. Why would that invalidate the good beliefs?

Belief A has no rational basis. Belief B has a rational basis. If you believe A yet have proven B, that doesn't make B wrong. Even if believe that it was A which led you to the discovery.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#228

Post by typon » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 1:56 AM UTC

donatj wrote: post #137

__44x0 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing new about this. Some people stopped associating with you because they didn't like your opinions, a story as old as humanity itself.

No. The new part is that even people I didn't offend with my sensibilities are not associating with me on an automated basis.

Did people have to interact with every single Nazi to have a blanket hatred against them? Not really. I don't see why you think this is a new phenomenon.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#229

Post by pcl » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 1:56 AM UTC

Retra wrote: post #220

jacquesm wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, did you get up and leave out of solidarity with the Republicans? If someone pulled that stunt here I'd be out of there. Politics are people's private business (unless they hold a very visible function, then it becomes relevant again but for folks just doing a job somewhere politics should be a non issue).

>Politics are people's private business What twisted hoops did you have to jump through to say something like that? "Private politics" is not politics. It makes no sense to say something like that. Politics is explicitly about interacting with other people in a non-private way.

I imagine that what the author intended to say was something along the lines of "An individual's political views are the private business of that individual." I think that's pretty clear from the context.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#230

Post by tangled_zans » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 1:58 AM UTC

ap22213 wrote: post #198

Well, at least they weren't being politically correct, right? Personally, I look down on people who are members of any political party. I truly try not to be biased, but it's pretty hard not to generalize. People who seek out association with amorphous groups just seem intellectually weak, lazy, or worse. The irony is that I'll probably be down-voted for stating my opinion (the way things are these days). Edit: Actua…

Way to have a holier-than-though attitude right off the bat. "Oh, look at me, I am so misunderstood for having OPINIONS"

Your opinions are that it's OK to casually look down on people for having political views. I think that's a legit reason for someone to think that your opinions are full of it and are worth downvoting.