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Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

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Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#311

Post by dragonwriter »

flubert wrote: post #309
babygoat wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all, and I don't love hearing what anti-progressives have to say so I'm not going to wade through that google search. I'm just saying that one reason those cities have a higher turnout for Democrats is because a lot of them are (or were) in labor unions.

Are you saying that those union members wouldn't self-identify as progressive? Or that progressivism has moved beyond endorsing labor unions? Or something else?

> Are you saying that those union members wouldn't self-identify as progressive?

Lots of union members self-identify as conservative, and have policy preferences consistent with that on most issues other than labor issues; in many cases they are Democrats, but not progressives.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#312

Post by DougWebb »

billylindeman wrote: post #228
andrelaszlo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to see what Flint looks like, so I dropped the little yellow streetview guy randomly. I ended up on Asylum Street (!). I'm at a loss for words: https://goo.gl/maps/UuPPKQK5MoF2 https://goo.gl/maps/KunFSxxRFWA2 https://goo.gl/maps/yg1NH6ZMkFJ2 https://goo.gl/maps/xVi2n8muHV32 https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92 https://goo.gl/maps/ssGZRAdiQak (memorial garden?) https://goo.gl/maps/B2waNiVfeut https://goo.gl/maps…

Theres so much amazing history in Flint, Michigan. I lived there for ~5.5 years from 2008-2013. There's such an odd dichotomy of greatness and despair in the streets of downtown with such an eerie mystery about it. For example https://goo.gl/maps/AviSiJQBcEH2 is the office and https://goo.gl/maps/jWHBmk51nxw is the factory for the Durant-Dort Carriage company (which would eventually evolve into General Motors). And y…

There's a spot like that near me. https://goo.gl/maps/jSVLtA5qQix is Thomas Edison's lab, now a museum and historic landmark. Right up the street on the next block is a huge fenced-off abandoned building complex. https://goo.gl/maps/gskvqGi89kz. The immediate neighborhood isn't bad, but within a few miles are the towns of East Orange and Irvington which have a lot of poverty and crime, and they are next to some of the rougher parts of Newark which are even worse.

EDIT: I noticed a "STYLECRAFT CLOTHING" sign on that abandoned building, and found this: https://books.google.com/books?id=jNwDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA302&ots...

It's an ad from a 1952 issue of Popular Mechanics for "Furniture Repair Kit". Neat.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#313

Post by sedachv »

zzalpha wrote: post #287
sedachv wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada (and Australia from what I have read, but not personally seen) the level of poverty in many Native towns is certainly comparable.

Umm, there are no "native towns" in Canada. It's absolutely true that many of the indigenous reserves here are a living tragedy... in fact, like Australia, we have a long and shameful history with respect to our indigenous population, a history that we're still writing today (recently the CBC had to shut down comments on stories about indigenous issues due the quantity of hateful comments they attract). That said, sm…

> Umm, there are no "native towns" in Canada.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_reserves_in_Can...

Most of those have towns in them.

> However, we don't tend to have the same level of urban blight and decay as you see in some American cities.

There are plenty of run-down areas and derelict industrial objects in and around Montreal. It is true you cannot compare Montreal to select cities like Detroit or Newark, but that is because the urban blight there is exclusively a product of systemic racism against blacks in the United States. This is why it makes more sense to compare Detroit to Native towns. Indigenous people in Canada face blatant and open discrimination today that is comparable to what blacks face in the United States.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#314

Post by flubert »

dragonwriter wrote: post #311
flubert wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that those union members wouldn't self-identify as progressive? Or that progressivism has moved beyond endorsing labor unions? Or something else?

> Are you saying that those union members wouldn't self-identify as progressive? Lots of union members self-identify as conservative, and have policy preferences consistent with that on most issues other than labor issues; in many cases they are Democrats , but not progressives .

Certainly there must be polls out there with this information, but apparently I can't quite suss out the search terms to find it. What area's do you think these union members are conservative on? Free trade? Minimum wage? Corporate tax rates? I suppose those might be on the labor side of things. Abortion? Military spending? Public school spending? Universal health care? Social Security privatization? Legalizing marijuana?

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#315

Post by paulddraper »

flubert wrote: post #299
paulddraper wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple buildings (including two schools) and hundreds of cars were burned, at least one elderly man was killed. IDK of anything comparable in the US in this century. It's hyperbole only in that the area affected was small compared to the rest of Sweden, in the same way that one street is small compared to the rest of the US.

>IDK of anything comparable in the US in this century. https://www.google.com/#q=cars+burned+baltimore+riots https://www.google.com/#q=damage+from+ferguson+riots

Yep. I stand corrected. Those are similar and on the same scale (i.e. larger than I had remembered). Like I said, there are worst sights than an old house.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#316

Post by paulddraper »

andrelaszlo wrote: post #300
paulddraper wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm at a loss for words > To me, there's something really heartbreaking about abandoned and decaying houses. You're at a lost for words because of some old houses? At least there aren't gangs roaming the capital, looting, killing, and burning for days. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328952/Sweden-riots... I'm not saying either US or Sweden is a nightmare; just that every place has its uglier side. If you'…

You are probably right. I get emotional over buildings quite often. Might be some kind of personality disorder.

Understandable. I also get emotional, though differently.

I reminisce when I see old buildings, even those in poor condition.

They make me think of the history of the place, and the connections I have to the past.

Also, I've lived in a lot of humble circumstances and have really liked the people I got to know, so I'm somewhat biased towards less modernized settings. I understand that there are a lot of problems in indigent places, and I don't want to minimize that at all, but I have fond memories.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#317

Post by flubert »

sedachv wrote: post #313
zzalpha wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, there are no "native towns" in Canada. It's absolutely true that many of the indigenous reserves here are a living tragedy... in fact, like Australia, we have a long and shameful history with respect to our indigenous population, a history that we're still writing today (recently the CBC had to shut down comments on stories about indigenous issues due the quantity of hateful comments they attract). That said, sm…

> Umm, there are no "native towns" in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_reserves_in_Can... Most of those have towns in them. > However, we don't tend to have the same level of urban blight and decay as you see in some American cities. There are plenty of run-down areas and derelict industrial objects in and around Montreal. It is true you cannot compare Montreal to select cities like Detroit or New…

>the urban blight there is exclusively a product of systemic racism against blacks in the United States.

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&q=detroit+indus...

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#318

Post by billylindeman »

schreiaj wrote: post #249
zmccomb91 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from flint. In your fifth link, if you turn around and see the building with the bright blue painting, that is a medical marijuana dispensary called Michigan compassion care center or something. About 1 mile from that is Kettering university one of the top flight mechanical engineering schools in the country. Also Michigan flint, Mott community college, and baker college are all within 5 miles of each other. I l…

Not just Mechanical Engineering. Their EE and Management programs are incredibly solid too. I graduated with a CS degree there a couple years ago too, haven't had too many issues. They also had a fair bit of R&D coming through there and a startup incubator being built when I was graduating. It's a sad place but there's some really cool stuff going on there between the universities.

I actually worked in that building for ~1.5 years. Theres a ton of cool startup stuff happening right around there thanks to Kettering and UM-Flint. The water situation seems to have dealt a pretty big blow, but I'm sure progress is still happening. If you haven't been back, I definitely recommend grabbing a bite / drinks downtown if you're ever in the area. Saginaw street is a much different place than it was 5-6 years ago.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#319

Post by EliRivers »

mason240 wrote: post #75
anon1385 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The toxicity of lead is actually a longstanding political argument in the US. Lobbying against lead regulation was one of the original motivations for the development of modern american libertarianism. Even fairly recently libertarian organisations like the Cato Institute have been fighting against regulation of lead and against compensation for those poisoned. When the topic of lead comes up on HN you often get comm…

>The ridiculous political bun-fight infects everything, it seems. It's a mental disease. Thanks for providing an example of the political toxicity the OP was talking about.

Yeah, right. In the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby, and being free of HIV is just the first stage of infection, decrying the ridiculous political bun-fight is itself a political stance.

I try not to swear in these things, but fuck me. What a ridiculous statement. What a total piece of mental masturbation.

Pointing out insanity is not insanity.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#320

Post by youssifa »

Ocerge wrote: post #117
hellofunk wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not far from Flint, the city of Detroit now has the world's largest collection of urban ruins, even greater in size and quantity than Rome. Amazing, truly, what you see in that part of Michigan. I lived 2 hours away from there in Central Michigan from end of 2008 - 2010. One of the sadder experiences I had was, one day while out on my daily walk around the neighborhood, there were a mass of people standing around…

I spend a lot of time in Michigan as my company is based in Grand Rapids. It's almost like East and West Germany at times with how much better off Western Michigan is.

Have you been to the eastern part of Michigan? The Detroit suburbs like Birmingham, West Bloomfield, Bloomfield Hills, etc. are absurdly affluent. Not to mention that places like Ann Arbor, and even Royal Oak and Dearborn Heights are doing fairly well. I'd attribute it to suburban flight more than an East/West divide.

Source: lived in Michigan 22 years

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