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Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

positech.co.uk

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Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#221

Post by makomk »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #27
adrtessier wrote: post #12

> "We need to reign this stuff in. Its not just psychological warfare, but warfare where you, the customer, are woefully outgunned, and losing. Some people are losing catastrophically." I strongly disagree with this statement. I am very aware of the psychology behind marketing and advertising, and anyone with half an interest in it has probably read Vance Packard's The Hidden Persuaders , which was released, oh, 58 y…

Funny that this comes up. Donald J. Boudreaux wrote an entry just earlier on the same topic in response to Akerlof and Shiller's recent book: http://cafehayek.com/2015/12/the-role-of-market-forces-in-pr... There's also a bit of a double standard about how advertising is perceived. Banner ads, editorials and similar are frowned upon. Yet it's quite likely you'll interpret someone promoting a work in the comments secti…

There's a subtle but critical mistake in the very first paragraph of that blog post. It doesn't create profitable opportunities for entrepreneurs to help consumers avoid being phished for phools, it creates profitable opportunities for entrepreneurs who can convince consumers that they're helping them avoid being phished for phools. This is an important distinction because consumers suffer from the same information asymmetries when deciding who to trust as they do when deciding what to buy.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#222

Post by neikos »

adrtessier wrote: post #180
TeMPOraL wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One difference I see is that H-D subculture is not ephemeral . If H-D decided to wrap up their business and disappear tomorrow, the bikes will still be there. The clothes will still be there. The brand, the culture created around it over the years, will still exist. Contrast with the "value" whales purchase for their games that could cease to exist the moment the game company decides to shut down their servers.

What about anything else where you are paying for the experience? While not a perfect analogy, Walt Disney World comes to mind: it's a place you take your family, and you are subject to potentially spending tens of thousands of dollars there, in the parks and the hotels, on food and attractions. Amusement parks, like casinos, are labyrinthine and optimized to take your money, and food/drinks are usually extremely ove…

I disagree with the way you compare memories and bonding moments with your family/friends to a game you are usually meant to spend alone and are unable to remember what you did in it last week.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#223

Post by kozukumi »

triangleman wrote: post #121
kozukumi wrote: post #26

Hmm this is a tough one. Firstly I should make it clear that my wife works in the games industry. She works on PC, Console and Mobile titles. She has mentioned several times how there is a lot of pressure put on developers and publishers to "catch the whales". They employ psychologists and gambling specialists to make games, mostly mobile but it is also creeping into PC and Console, super addictive. Personally I am o…

The original article is bad. It can be summed up in a key phrase the author used 3 times: Governments need to "save us from ourselves". I'm sorry but that's not the role of government. "Protect us from each other" as well as "provide us necessary public services" is closer to the actual design of government. I wish that instead of running around screaming "think of the children", the author actually respected his aud…

Thanks. It is a problem for her but thankfully not to the point where she feels she should leave on principle.

The games industry is small though and it is all going in a similar direction. Ideally she would change industry but after more than 10 years doing games and now in her early 40s she is anxious about making such a change.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#224

Post by marknutter »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #37
marknutter wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Particular attention should be paid to the parental controls available in every mobile OS out there.

Even with parental controls, why should companies be allowed to advertise expensive microtransactions to children? Certain types of advertising aimed at kids are already banned in various countries. Companies are well aware of the power of making kids nag their parents to spend money. But now they have an even worse tool: many kids have almost direct access to their parents' wallets if they borrow their devices.

Because parents can just turn parental controls on. I'm sorry, but it's not the state's responsibility to make sure my kids don't nag me for shit.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#225

Post by DaveSapien »

I have talked in front of rooms full of my peers about abusing the vulnerable with predatory IAP's. Rooms full of artists (and students) applauded me. While rooms of more 'professional' developers booed me. I found more often than not, the 'professional' people that have a family to feed defended there moral very strongly. I could boil their argument (unfairly?) down to this, its ok to trick the vulnerable out of their money because I need to make money to feed my family. Where the more idealist artisans where more interested in the craft of games and earning the right to make money with good content. Its a weird rational to base your moral actions on.

I count myself as an idealist, I care about people before my own ability to buy things. I don't think I have a right to make a living at what I love, an opportunity for sure, but thinking you have an entitlement to make money at making games seems to lead us to a dark place for us all.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#227

Post by mikeash »

voltagex_ wrote: post #214
mikeash wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you crash your uninsured Harley it's no different.

Can't buy Game Closure Insurance (yet)

Probably just because the stuff has no value in the first place. Add in a secondary market and insurance should be obtainable. (Not that many would or should obtain it.)

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#228

Post by ascagnel_ »

marknutter wrote: post #224
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with parental controls, why should companies be allowed to advertise expensive microtransactions to children? Certain types of advertising aimed at kids are already banned in various countries. Companies are well aware of the power of making kids nag their parents to spend money. But now they have an even worse tool: many kids have almost direct access to their parents' wallets if they borrow their devices.

Because parents can just turn parental controls on. I'm sorry, but it's not the state's responsibility to make sure my kids don't nag me for shit.

Most western nations impose age limits on drinking and the purchase of cigarettes as well as limit advertising targeted at children. If it's addictive and potentially habit-forming, it should be regulated.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#229

Post by ascagnel_ »

chejazi wrote: post #97
jml7c5 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are there specific genre's of games that have the sorts of traps the author describes? Free-to-play games are the obvious example. MMORPGs are another, though I would say they are somewhat less sinister as — while they use many psychological tricks to keep players coming back — they are at the core generally an attempt to produce an interesting or enjoyable game world, which is generally not the primary goal in F2P…

As a former MtG player, I remember the gambler's high I'd get opening every booster pack. But while my cards are sitting in a dusty box somewhere, it sounds like there's a lot of recirculation that happens within the Valve community.

There also a big difference between Magic cards and the Valve items -- Valve items are only cosmetic, while Magic cards derive their high value because they can make your deck stronger.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#230

Post by norea-armozel »

kozukumi wrote: post #26

Hmm this is a tough one. Firstly I should make it clear that my wife works in the games industry. She works on PC, Console and Mobile titles. She has mentioned several times how there is a lot of pressure put on developers and publishers to "catch the whales". They employ psychologists and gambling specialists to make games, mostly mobile but it is also creeping into PC and Console, super addictive. Personally I am o…

That's the rub isn't it?

If we let Congress decide then we'll likelier get what we have with gambling where the biggest players are still getting people hooked on the high of winning but the smaller folks are the ones who get tossed out. Then you got genres and approaches which shouldn't even be considered equivalent (like DLCs and expansions to single player games and the like) being regulated the same way. Frankly, at this point I'm going to say let the suckers get hung out to dry and let some class action suit form to deal with this problem. At least then the question of liability will be settled by case law w/o the concern of Congressional overreach.

I hate saying that too since I do genuinely believe this matter should be under regulatory review, but Congress is too ham fisted and idiotic when it comes to technology (their current nonsense regarding encryption proves that right all too well).

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